Episode 4 - Derek from Vancouver - A father and son, and the unexpected synchronicities of the Camino

Danny

Hello Derek, it is so good to have you here. I am truly very happy that you want to be a guest on the Your Inner Camino Podcast. For me this is extra special, because of course I already know you from the Camino. I know who you are and what you look like, but for the people listening, would you introduce yourself?

Derek

Yes, Danny, thank you very much for the invitation. It is really a pleasure to be able to share part of my story.

I live in Vancouver, Canada, and I was also born and raised there. I am 48 years old, and my wife and I have been married for almost 21 years. Together we have four children. Of course, you met my oldest son, Jonathan. He is 18 and has just finished high school. He took a gap year, and as part of that, we walked the Camino together.

In daily life, I am a software engineer. I have worked in that world for a long time, so I have experienced the enormous changes in technology up close, from the days of Windows 3.1 to the rise of the internet. That is exactly why the Camino was also so special for me. I wanted to get away from screens. As a software engineer, you spend so much time in your head. On the Camino, I wanted to get out of my head and more into my heart.

Danny

I find that very relatable, because I also have a background as a software engineer. I love building websites, for example, because it is also a creative process, but the whole industry changes incredibly fast. And yes, I know very well what it is like to spend so much time behind a screen. So I can really relate to that.

We met each other on the Camino, and I am very curious, what story, or maybe which stories, would you like to share with the listeners today?

Derek

Maybe it would be good if I first gave some background about our Camino.

About ten years ago, I was already working in software and, like so many people, I watched the film The Way with Martin Sheen. That film stirred something in me. My imagination took off at the idea of walking, being a pilgrim, making a real pilgrimage. From that moment on, I started dreaming about it.

But I was a father, I was working, we had young children, so it was not the moment to just leave. I kept asking myself, when am I going to do my Camino?

When my oldest son Jonathan was almost finished with high school and started talking about taking a gap year, I suggested that we walk the Camino together. A father and son experience, but also a dream that had been alive in me for ten years.

At first, I suggested that we walk the entire Camino Francés, from Saint Jean Pied de Port to Santiago. But Jonathan was a little hesitant, so we made a compromise. We started in León and walked from there to Santiago. After that, we also continued on to Muxía, so we did that extra ninety kilometers as well. That was fantastic.

We left in September 2025. First, we spent some time in Europe, because it was Jonathan’s first time there. We went to Paris and London, and after that we traveled by train and plane to León to begin walking.

And if I remember correctly, we met you on day three, in Hospital de Órbigo.

Danny

Yes, that is right.

Derek

And honestly, that was truly one of my inner Camino moments. One of those moments when the Camino seems to give exactly what is needed.

We also met Father Ben from Kentucky there. I know you want to have him on the podcast later as well, which will be wonderful. He came up to Jonathan and me and started talking with us. At some point, he said that there would be a Mass that evening in the parish church, and he invited us to come.

What we did not know was that he had also met you in the meantime. Jonathan had told him that he was interested in psychology, and I believe Father Ben had also invited you because you have so much background in that area.

So that evening, we all came together in that church. Only it turned out that there was no regular Mass after all. Father Ben had been given the wrong information. But instead, he received a key to the church and gave you, Jonathan, and me a private Mass.

That was really special. A Mass in English, with only a few people in an old church on the Camino. It felt almost unreal. So intimate, so quiet, so meaningful.

And after that, we started talking with you. That is where a real connection began. Especially between you and Jonathan, because you not only have a background in applied psychology and neuroscience, but you also speak from experience. I already felt then, this is not just coincidence. This is one of those moments when the Camino brings people into your path whom you really need to meet at that moment.

Jonathan will begin university soon and wants to help people who struggle with mental health. You were already able to give him something about how to truly help people. Not only from theory, but also in a deeper way. And I know that meeting set something in motion.

For me, that was truly a moment when the Camino provided.

Danny

Thank you, Derek. I am almost getting a little shy hearing you say that. It almost sounds now as if I invited you onto the podcast so that you could say this about me, and of course that is not at all why I invited you. But what may be beautiful for the listeners is to also tell my side of that synchronicity, because only then does it become visible how everything came together.

I was walking that day across that famous bridge on the Camino Francés. A woman had just taken some photos of me, and I was walking into town. Then I saw a pilgrim coming from the other side, Father Ben.

He looked at me in a very striking way, and I remember thinking, why is he looking at me like that? We started talking there on the bridge. And that conversation ended up lasting quite a long time, maybe half an hour. We felt an immediate connection.

At some point, I told him about my background in applied psychology, later neuroscience, and even my interest in quantum physics. I also told him that I had done workshops and coaching, but that I also came from the IT world. It was a very beautiful conversation.

Later that day, we even had lunch together. My first date with a priest, I always say jokingly. That was also a first for me.

During that lunch, he told me that after we had met on the bridge, he had come across a father and son, Derek and Jonathan. And he said, “I really feel that I need to connect you with each other. Jonathan is going to study psychology, and you have so much experience in that area.”

I was simply thinking, okay, interesting. I still had no idea why, but you encounter these kinds of things more often on the Camino. That strange, almost unexplainable synchronicity.

And then later there was that private Mass in English, and after that our first real meeting. When I talk about it now, I still get goosebumps. It felt so strongly as if things were coming together in a way that you cannot explain with your mind, but of which you feel, this had to happen this way.

To this day, I still do not know exactly why. I have ideas, of course. My mind creates all kinds of stories around it. But if you really ask me why it happened, then the honest answer is, I have no idea. No idea. And that is exactly what makes it so special.

Derek

Yes, exactly that. And maybe that is also what makes a pilgrimage so special. You wake up in an albergue and you do not know what the day will bring. You make a plan, but in the end the day unfolds the way it unfolds. And somehow you trust that it will bring exactly what you need.

And that actually happened almost every day.

A few days after we met each other, Jonathan and I were walking one morning and we came across a Chinese couple. As always, you say “Buen Camino,” but this time a conversation immediately started.

They spoke a little English, and of course we did too, and that is how we began talking. They told us they were from Chengdu. I said that we were from Vancouver. And then they told us that they had lived on Vancouver Island for a year.

That is already remarkable enough, but when they told us which town they had lived in, it turned out to be Duncan. And that is exactly where my brother in law lives. My family also goes to Vancouver Island every summer to camp and hike. So suddenly you are standing on the Camino Francés in Spain, talking with a couple from Chengdu, and it turns out that you share a very concrete connection to a place on the west coast of Canada.

We started talking about coffee places that we both knew, about locations there. And again I thought, what are the chances of this?

That too is, for me, such an example of how the Camino provides. Not only in food or a bed or rest, but in encounters. In people. In connections that you never could have planned.

Danny

Yes, and that also touches on something else that many pilgrims deal with, what I call PCS, post Camino syndrome. Some people call it the Camino blues, but I actually think that expression is too soft. Sometimes you can really suffer from the longing to return to the Camino.

And then you start looking back. You begin reflecting on everything that happened. When you look back now, what do those moments of synchronicity still mean to you?

Derek

What it means for me is that it has given me a deeper sense that I am being carried. That something greater is at work. Something or someone greater than I am.

That gives me a feeling of surrender. I do not want to be passive, and I also do not want to become reckless. I still make plans, I still take responsibility. But at the same time, there is now a deeper trust that there is always a larger story unfolding than what I myself can see.

Even now that I am back in ordinary life, as a father, as a husband, as someone who works, I try to hold on to that awareness. As if the Camino has not really disappeared. As if that same providing force is still present here too.

The Camino felt to me like holy ground. As if through centuries of intention, prayer, longing, and pilgrimage, something tangible has been formed there. You really feel that when you walk there.

But I also believe that you can tune into that again at home. Not in exactly the same way, but definitely still.

Danny

Yes, that resonates completely with how I experience it. For me, it is as if what takes care of us gets blocked the moment I stand in the way myself.

By “standing in the way,” I mean this. As soon as a challenge appears, our human system instinctively reacts with control. Because control feels like safety. But when our limited brain wants to control the universe, then for me it is like an ant trying to steer an elephant. It simply does not work.

The difficult part is that your instinct keeps pushing you to try anyway. Fear says, this is dangerous, you need to get it under control. And exactly then you get in the way of that greater creative force that actually wants to unfold.

My experience is that when I can truly step aside, not even necessarily relax, but just get out of the way, and deeply know that I will be taken care of, something always appears. Always. Only never at the moment I think, never in the way I expect, and almost always much better than I could have imagined myself.

When I try to control it, I sometimes do get a result. But then it costs effort, tension, and stress. Whereas when I stay out of the way, the greatest challenge is often simply to keep myself quiet enough not to interfere with it all over again.

How does that resonate with you?

Derek

Very strongly. I recognize that from my own life as well.

I think, for example, of a moment when I lost my job. I was young, not yet married, no children, and I truly thought my world was collapsing. All of my hope and future seemed tied to that job.

But what happened? The next day, I got a call from someone I had worked with before. He had left that company earlier, had started something new, and asked, “Would you like to come work for me?”

Before I had even updated my résumé or sent out a single application, there was already a new job waiting for me.

Of course, it does not always happen that directly. Sometimes you really do have to go through a difficult period. Through a dark valley, what some people call the dark night of the soul. But those kinds of experiences build something in you. They become anchor points. Moments you can return to later when life gets hard.

And that is what the Camino does for me now as well. When something difficult happens today, I think back to those synchronicities on the Camino. They remind me, do not fall into fear. Keep walking. Take the next step. Trust.

Danny

Yes, exactly. And for me, that is the difference between belief and knowing.

If you say, “I believe I will be taken care of,” there is still a certain distance in that. But when you have experienced it multiple times, when you have truly lived it, then it is no longer belief. Then it becomes knowing.

And the only thing that can still stand in the way is that instinctive reaction of fear. That is also why I am so enthusiastic about this podcast. When I wrote the introductory text, I suddenly realized that self reflection is the key.

The moment you can see that you are trying to control, you have already stepped out of that movement of control. You are no longer completely absorbed by fear.

And that is also why I believe this podcast can be valuable. Every time someone listens to a story from another pilgrim about synchronicity, provision, and magical moments, something happens in the brain. In psychology, we know that your frame of reference can shift through the experiences of others. In a way, you reprogram your inner system.

That is exactly what I hope for with this podcast, that by listening, people will come to know more and more deeply that they are being taken care of.

But I also want to ask you something about Jonathan. How was all of this for him? The meeting, the Camino, and then coming back home?

Derek

Yes, I would really like to say something about that. Jonathan also knows that I am talking about this.

I think he sensed very clearly that this Camino was something whose meaning would not fully reveal itself right away. As if you make an investment and the real return only becomes visible later.

I think he felt, this is one of those moments in my life that I will look back on later and realize how important it was.

He was certainly also impressed by all of those moments of synchronicity. And even since we have been back, those experiences are still carrying him. I notice that especially now that he has had difficulty finding work.

The job market here in Canada is not easy right now, especially not for young people. He really wanted to earn some money before starting university, but it did not happen easily. And of course, then the thought can come up, is something wrong with me?

Then I try to remind him that this is not about him, but about the circumstances. And I genuinely believe that the experiences of the Camino help him not to drown in that. That they help him keep feeling that this too is simply part of his path.

Danny

Yes, and I am also very curious how that will go once he really starts studying. My concern is always that education does not only give knowledge, but sometimes also makes the mind less flexible.

You learn a great deal, and that is valuable, but you also automatically enter a certain framework of thinking. And that can limit creativity, openness, and the ability to look across the boundaries of different fields.

Jonathan and I also spoke about that together on the Camino. He sensed that himself as well. Not because what he is going to study is not valuable, quite the opposite. But because I hope he stays open. That he takes in knowledge and at the same time remains free in his thinking, also outside the framework of the system.

In Dutch, we call someone who has completed a degree a scientist, but in Dutch there is also something in the word that relates to having a skill. And for me, science is always in motion. What seems absolutely true today may look different again in five years because of new research.

So my hope is mainly that he combines the knowledge of university with an open, flexible mind. Because that is when you can contribute to society, and to the lives of others, in a way that you cannot predict in advance.

Derek

Yes, I recognize that. And I am also glad that Jonathan is aware of that. That awareness alone already helps. Of course, he will also have to protect it, but it is good that he already senses it.

And whatever your connection will mean exactly, we do not know. Maybe the two of you will talk a lot, maybe once in a while, maybe hardly at all. That also does not have to be filled in yet.

But above all, I hope he keeps remembering what you gave him, that study is important, but not the end point. That it is about truly helping people. And sometimes that means that truly listening is more valuable than perfectly following a theory or a textbook.

Danny

Yes, exactly. Because sometimes a person does not need what he expects, but something very different. And for that, you have to remain free enough to truly see.

Derek, I think we have touched on a lot. Is there anything you really want to say to the listeners? Maybe to pilgrims who are walking now, to people with PCS, or to people who have never done the Camino but feel they want to go?

Derek

Yes. To people who are thinking about walking the Camino, but have not done it yet, I would say, do it.

Do not let fear stop you. Not the thought that you might sleep badly in an albergue, or get blisters, or that there could be bedbugs, or any other practical fear. Go.

I already know that I will look back on my Camino as one of the most important experiences of my life. One of those turning points. One of those moments when something opened and I was allowed to see something of the greater whole.

So yes, if you feel that you want to go, go.

Danny

And for the people who are struggling with PCS?

Derek

Then I would say, maybe plan another Camino. That certainly helps.

But also something else, see if there are pilgrim groups in your area. Here in Vancouver, there are groups of former pilgrims who walk together, share experiences, and continue meeting each other. I believe those kinds of groups exist in many cities.

So look for them. Through Google, Facebook, or other channels. Connect with people who have experienced the same thing. That really helps.

Danny

Yes. And if you walk again, and I expect that you will, then you really have to come by in Viloria de Rioja. We bought a house there and from the end of April we hope to open a resting place for pilgrims there on a donativo basis. I have given it the name The Inner Camino House.

You are more than welcome there. And if Jonathan ever comes alone, or together with you, then both of you will get a very big hug.

Derek

For me, that is really non negotiable. If I come back, I will come by. My plan is to walk again next year, this time probably with my second son, Andrew, when he graduates. That would then be in 2027.

And if we go, we will definitely come by and see you. That will simply be part of our Camino.

Danny

Wonderful. We have a very nice guest room. Not a large number of beds, because it is not an albergue, but it is a place where you are truly welcome. So if you let us know, we will make sure there is a place for you to sleep.

Derek, thank you very much for this open and beautiful conversation. For your reflections, your stories, and the way you give words to what the Camino can do.

Derek

Thank you, Danny. It was truly an honor to be on your podcast.

Danny

Thank you.

Whether you are walking the Camino right now, or preparing for it, or perhaps you are back home, and maybe even suffering from PCS, the Post Camino Syndrome.

I hope that this podcast inspires you. And if so, do NOT keep it to yourself.

SHARE IT!

When you share this podcast, you ACTIVELY help spread the skill of Self-Reflection.

Every person who learns the skill of Self-Reflection begins to see people differently.

You may still question WHAT someone DOES.

But the judgment about their INTENTION starts to disappear. And you enter the realm of non-judgement.

And non-judgment is experienced as unconditional love.

That is how REAL change begins.

With you.
Then the people around you.
Your city.
Your province.
Your country.
Your continent.
And eventually,
the world.

That is why ACTIVELY spreading the skill of Self-Reflection, like an unstoppable virus, is SO important.

So please, do NOT just listen, but ACT on this call, and share it with as MANY people and on as MANY platforms as you can, TODAY.

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Thank you for listening, and Buen Camino.