Episode 15 - Helena from Asturias - Walking alone with heartbreak, hangovers, and nowhere left to hide

Danny

Hello, fellow pilgrims and listeners to the Inno Camino podcast. today, I am here looking at lady, Helena, and, she joined also as participant in the inner communion podcast, which I really love. and I love listening to the stories the parents want to share. It's always totally mind blowing, I discovered, and very touching. And…many times, it takes really surprising corners I never expected. So, Elena, I'm very pleased that you also joined the podcast and that we are now recording. And, could you tell something about yourself and introduce you to the listeners

Helena

Your fellow Belgians…Yeah. Hi, Danny. thank you so much for having me on…That's a curious one straight up, isn't it? How do I introduce myself…I'm thinking I'm gonna start with whatever comes through, which is that I walked my first commune at the age of forty nine. So, I am now fifty eight. This autumn, I'll be fifty nine. So that's ten years ago. And, for reasons that we'll probably speak into

that was a pivotal moment. That was a moment that changed my life, that first Camino…And then if I fast forward to now…and then take it back a little bit was that I now live in the north of Spain. I now live my first Camino was a Camino Primitivo…And, I remember flying from Stansted to Oviedo, and that is the capital of where I live now. I'm in the northern province of Asturias, which is where the Camino Primitivo starts from, Oviedo, as you said. And also the Camino Norte as well runs through Asturias and my local town of Viviciosa. So when I walked my first Camino, I don't think I had any intention of living in Spain. And I maybe you didn't. No. Me too. When I walked my first Camino, the sequence of events were starting, and I had no clue. I even didn't know that anything changed in my life. I thought, well, nice Camino

Now I'm moving it Yeah. Yes. For sure. and it really when it's so interesting, when people start to walk the Camino, I had no idea. I had no idea what was coming. And if anybody had said to me, do you have any idea? I mean, I'm quite a courageous woman, but I don't know. would I have done that? Who knows? I you know, they say on the commune, you get what you need. Yeah. You know what not what you want. And I think I have met that, I definitely met that on my first Camino, and I have been meeting it along the way ever since, for sure. So, yeah. So if I sort of go big again, I am originally from Canterbury in Kent in England. And, I've traveled a lot in my world, but that was always a place that I came back to. And

yeah, lived in Australia for a bit and traveled a lot in Asia in my early twenties. And yeah. And, anyway, I have two beautiful daughters, and I have two little grandsons as well. And they all live, they live West London, East London, and my grandsons are sort of West London. So, yeah, I get to see them never as much as I would like to, but Yeah. I have a beautiful family behind me. So, yeah, I'm a very blessed woman. I know what that means because I have, three…grandchildren and four kids. Yeah. You don't see them so much anymore if you leave your country. And, that's a hard

Danny

thing to deal with. having said that, when I was living in the Netherlands, I also didn't see my kids so much because everybody's busy. So, sometimes I've also noticed that living abroad, it could…reverse it in a way that I and in periods of time, I sold my kids more living in Sweden than when I was living in the Netherlands. So that could also be, you know, but it's not easy. I feel with that Yeah. So Yeah. For sure. And in fact, my youngest daughter, she's visited a lot over the years, and I would say for sure the quality of the relationship Oh, yeah. With her because we get that holiday time together, we get that devoted time, has actually been to our benefit. But, you know, my older daughter with the two little boys, it's harder for her to travel. And so I have less time with them.

but the choices that I made have a, you know, they have a different impact as well. I think, you know, I bring a different side of myself when I do get time with them. But Yeah. That's true Yeah. I totally agree that this is my experience as well Yeah. So, you know, the podcast is all about the inner Camino…and, not about the blisters, the backpack, and the traveling, planning, and all that kind of stuff. It's really about what this yeah. The things we encounter when we're walking, like Camino provide moments…the Camino provide the things you don't want, but you need, the magical moments, things you leave behind, the pain you leave behind, your pain the pain you wanted to leave behind, but you took it with you to the next Camino. You know, all the encounters, insights, that kind of, stories. So, yeah, I'm very curious what you want to share with the Camino family

Helena

Yeah. I mean, there's so many stories, so many threads that I could put on here. and when I contacted you first off, there was a very definite theme that…I, yeah, I probably I was, I'm sure, speaking to. But, I think the biggest gift…probably, for me is the way that it connected me with nature. the way that…as I moved across from Oviedo into the mountains, and I remember…looking up at the hills at the time, I was like, crack, you're there a long way away. I hope I haven't got to go that far. and actually, they were, like, halfway through the day's walking. I'd never done hiking. I'd never done well, I had done hiking, but, you know, locally with the dog, I hadn't done hiking. Yeah. In hiking, like some people can do. And so suddenly, with a bit of preparation, but not much, I'm walking maybe twenty five, thirty two kilometers a day. And

yeah, it was the way that the land held me. And I it basically, the story is that I started walking with a boyfriend, and we had been together a year or so. And he'd walked several caminos and lived and worked in Spain before I knew him. And he had this map of Spain and its caminos on his, kitchen wall. So we spoke about it, and he said, maybe you'd like to do that with me one day. and that's how I arrived at Oviedo with a backpack…with, in truth, no idea what was about to happen

Really. And, you know, and I've obviously I've had nearly a decade of, inner work, reflection, and learning since that time. And, again, what that Camino gave me was what I absolutely needed, which was the I had joined him…for a while. And then four or five days in, we had a huge argument…I mean, really…the major argument and, you know, arms in the air, things in the air, temper's played. And then suddenly, we've got different bunk beds at the end of the dormitory, and the next morning, he's gone. And Okay. And that…just that brought up a loss of a lot of, core trauma in my being. Yeah. there I was walking this Camino, which to me was like, you know, having a walking holiday with a boyfriend and suddenly the boyfriend's gone. And I've got no idea what next. I had Yeah. I had I think, you know, if I sort of hold that very gently in myself now, what I had not done was taken personal responsibility Yeah. For the trip or for the holiday or for the Camino. And then I got this it was like the axe came down and said, now you're gonna take personal responsibility. and I really had to look, you know, begin to look around my life and, you know, subsequently, and, like, Where am I taking personal responsibility and where am I not? How am I owning this? How am I showing up? Yep

so that so yes. So there was That's, quite a shock…It was really, and it was raining…because it rains a lot in the north. and I was walking and, you know, like, heat gone. And it's raining, and I'm crying, and I'm feeling very abandoned. and I just kept walking. And as I said, I had no map. I had no mark. No. I had no idea. I had no apps. Oh. And, like, I'm not so I didn't really do apps at that time of life. And so Yeah. I literally all I had was the yellow signs. Oh, wow. The yellow signs. Okay

No. I have, like, literally, I knew the destination for where we were staying that night. Yeah. That was my goal. And that was where…what I knew was gonna happen stopped. that I had a res a reservation at a certain Malabergos somewhere along the way. And, of course, I expected for the boyfriend to be there. I was like, okay. We're obviously walking separately today. He's got an early start. Yeah. and I sat at the Alverge waiting for him to show

looking at every time the door opened when I got there, like and he never showed. Oh, he didn't arrive there all day? Nothing he…Okay. Never showed. And I never checked in with you about swearing, but you couldn't imagine what was going through my mind there. It really was like, fuck

And, yeah…So what do…You could also break it off and go home…Sorry? I could have done that. Yeah. and I didn't Yeah. I was that was the point where I think I really probably started to walk back to me and take responsibility and, you know, put on my big, little pants and say, right. Well, I've got an English shirt. What's going on here? And then I started to talk to people and say, so, you know, how are you doing this? And that was the introduction to words like stages…and municipal albergues and have you booked your accommodation? And, you know, I mean, it was a long time ago, and it was really tough. and I think this is the bigger theme of what I you know, which really has a lot of resonance for me, was that I sought solitude in the bottle. Oh, yeah. Like, there was really the I've got a broken heart, and I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And, you know, just turning up and I'll pour myself a gin or get myself a beer and, you know, and,

yeah, I really I was…that I met. And I say that with a lot of kindness because I think that what was going on for me, again, was that I was meeting the parts of myself that I had not yet looked at, that I had not yet taken care of. and drinking had always been present in my family life. It was something that I grew up with. Yeah. And, you know, there's alcoholism in my family. And this, I can only speak for myself, but there's

there's a balance to be had, and I didn't have that balance. Mhmm. You know? Like, over the years, divorce and single parenting, and it's a good day. It's a bad day. I wasn't a drunk, but I was a habitual drinker. Oh, okay. that first Camino, I got to meet the part of me that

would wake up…not from a volume perspective, but because my body was saying you cannot keep doing this, I would wake up with a hangover. And I would start walking with a hangover and, you know, and then I'd repeat. So, again, I was heartbroken. I was seeing my patterns. The alcohol was present

yeah. and, actually, you know, it stayed present, that whole Camino. and it was a few years later when I actually really got behind the reasons of why I was drinking by way of…coping. It was a coping strategy in my work. Mhmm. Yep. The you know, like, it sort of it gave me the I was like the fun time person at the party, you know, instead of going for a laugh. and it was masking a lot of stuff. and, actually, when I walked my…when was it? I went to do another Camino in Lisbon, and then that's a whole separate story, but I didn't actually make that. I didn't take that Camino in the end. But the next four Camino that I did, as in I walked, was in…early summer of twenty twenty three. And by then, I'd stopped drinking. Oh, yeah. Okay. and I did that Camino sober. And,

and…sober is a funny word because it sort of applies that there's a level of alcoholism. For me, I would say that I was a habitual drinker. Yeah. And that once I got behind the reasons why I was drinking…Yeah. Which I wasn't able to do on that first Camino, but I had done by the time I did my second Camino. I had a different Camino experience again. Yeah. But that was showing me different stuff. You know? Yeah. and by the way, I just the question doesn't want to go out of my brain. in the first Camino, your friend…disappeared. Did you ever meet or talk with him in your life after that, or it just was like, poof, gone

Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's like the whatever come at the end there, Helena. is there? I think I don't know. Maybe we blocked messages. It was a long time ago. And, anyway, eventually, I found out that he'd gone to Madrid. Oh. Whilst I thought he was whilst I thought he was walking, he'd gone to Madrid and then, had taken a flight back to London. So I was sweating and trembling

but…whilst I didn't find that out, immediately. Yeah. I just trusted the fact that, you know, we were gonna bump into each other or that it never occurred to me that he would not be walking his Camino because it was actually him who had introduced me to the Camino. Yeah. So, yeah, that was and then when I got to Santiago when I got to Santiago…I still had a week. I think I had three weeks. I walked from Oviedo three to Santiago. Yeah. and I just kept walking. You know? It there is something fantastic about…the left right…action of, you know, one foot forward if one follows. The hips are moving. This is what is it? The monotone? What's the word? Do you know the Yeah. the pendulum movement of Yeah. that…drops us, dropped me into that meditative space where deep thinking, reflection, also presence with the Earth, presence with the environment as well. And I'm sure that, you know, I'm speaking to the converted here, which is that there is

such an incredible sense of being a part of something and being…in that wholeness…that is life. Yeah. and then when I got to Santiago, I was gonna stay there, and then literally just went started walking the next morning straight through to Finisterre, which had kind of when I started walking off the other way back when, that was a kind of that would be a nice to have. And then I just kept walking, and there is you know, I'd always been lived in England very close to the sea. There was something just about literally walking to the end of the earth Yeah. That was where I wanted to be. I wanted to stand at that lighthouse. I wanted to stand on those cliffs. And, actually, what I did very symbolically when I got to Finisterre that then…was, somewhere along the way, I bought a pair of hairdressing scissors. And, symbolically, I cut my hair at the on the cliffs there in the sunset and

had a release ceremony, you know, that there was a part of me that I was shedding, that I was releasing onto the wind and into the sea. And, Yeah. that was Finn's day. And then I walked up to Lucia as well. Lucia. Yeah. Which I love. I love Lucia. So Yeah. I've been there last year, but it was raining the whole day and quite cold. So I need to go there again because that was Yes. I mean, that took me was not so nice. Like, which…yeah. And that, to me, sounds like which year in August Yeah. Of Whitney. But then it could be a series in August. Yeah. You just never know. You just never know what the weather's doing up here on this You also said, how many communes did you walk then or do you know that

So that first one, I suppose, because the little Santiago I'll go through to Finisterre is counted as one, and then the Finisterre up to mature is counted as a separate communal. So actually came away with three compostellas. Oh, okay. One of the camino. The first one? Yeah. So that's Yes. Yeah. So I was really super proud of myself

because I had it. Yeah. And especially because you didn't have any maps and no apps and just so did you, were you capable to get some…route information, a book, or, how did you continue the first…after the first day? Because, I mean, you just mentioned you only had the yellow arrows. Did you keep walking that way, or did you start using some tooling, books, or whatever? Yeah. No. I just kept walking and talking. Oh, okay. Yeah. and, you know, sometimes…I think there was one day when, I was really in my head, and I completely missed the yellow sign. And it was a day when I was already walking about thirty two ks, which to be fair, is more than I like to walk. I'm really comfortable, at you know, I'm I really I want to breathe with the land. I want to stand with the trees. I'm comfortable between twenty to twenty five k. You know, I know that I find the thirty two k days difficult. Yeah. Back when I was forty nine, they were difficult then. I mean, these days, you'd have to you'd really have to put a rocket at me to get me to do thirty two k these days. I know that some people love it, and that's fine too. But for me, I don't wanna walk that fast. No. And I've I just find it a bit much. But that day then was a long walking day. and, you know, it was a hard walking day. And then I'd been in my head getting very angry about something

And I was stomp. And then I remember that this padre, this priest, I guess, drove past in a car, and he stopped. And he was kinda like, you need to turn around. And he Spanish my English. And I realized that it was really a moment when I was just like, again, you know. Keep your word for how you would describe your feelings in that moment. Yeah. and, of course, if for anybody who's ever needed to turn around on the path, the arrows aren't necessarily obvious as No. As they are going one way Yeah. That's really difficult. Wrong. Yeah. That's difficult. Yeah. So really asking for the kindness of I think there were some people outside the house and not being able to find where the route had gone to. And, you know, really, I was angry. I was late. I was frustrated. And, you know, meeting the kindness of people in those moments who actually come out of the house because they could see that I was in a state of overwhelm. Yeah. And,

and they actually walked me to the path Oh, okay. And brought me back on the route as well. Oh, that's…awesome. Yes. So and then, thank god, there was a coffee shop a kilometer or so on. And, you know, if I can always find a good coffee in the morning, that makes me very happy. I'm looking at

they say you sort of replace one pattern with another, but Yeah. and I walked in I remember I had a sort of a fellow pilgrim walker at the time, and he was like, Helena, there's sparks coming off you. You know? Like, I just felt…I felt just fired up with life…Oh, okay. Yeah. in that moment. You know, so fully alive, so fully vital…of, you know, I was angry. I got lost. I found the path again. I'm making good time. There's a coffee shop. And it was just those moments when you wanna when I wanna roar at life Yeah. Because it is So incredible. Yeah. and, actually, you know, when we speak into those stories about, incredible kindnesses, which…it's amazing the form that they can take. One of the

abiding moments…that still brings tears to my eyes is that on one of those long, hot days of walking I was walking in August. Okay…And, you know, I always carry, a good litre of water extra in my bag, but Yeah. this was a day just where there hadn't been Fuentes. And I was kind of on my knees energetically…and it was it's still a long way to go and it was hot and, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe I'd woken up late that morning with a hangover…and this Galician…I want to say farmer, but let's say somebody who worked the land…came up to me and he with his with there was fruit plums in his hand. Yeah. And he just put his hand…over mine. I extended my hand. He kind of made to give me something. I put my hand out. Mhmm. And he just put that there's that fruit in my hand, and it was like he had given me gold Yeah. better than gold. Money's no good to you when you're on the Camino. You need fruit and water. Yep Yeah. And he'd given me his gold. Yep

Danny

Yeah. So yeah. That was that Just because…you know, that reminds me on what, Marissa had told in the previous, in the podcast, this episode number twelve, that she was taken care of by a family in Pamplona. And, the man drove her the next day by car to the place where she knew other her Camino family was. And she asked him, why do you do this? And he she got the answer because that's what we do

Helena

And that's Yeah. A bit similar because he saw you come over and give you…the fruit…Yeah. And, you know, when…well, I think, you know, there's been a lot of adversity in my life. And I don't know how often…I have experienced really simple kindness. Mhmm. really simple, where a complete stranger walks up to you and sees you, sees your needs in those moments Yeah. And says nothing. Yeah

Danny

Yeah. And I really think that's these signs…we…at the moment that it happens, we recognize it, we feel it, but then you continue and…not most likely not when you were walking down on a Camino, but in daily life, which is not normal life…When these moments happens, you're registrated very briefly, but then the noise of life takes over and it fades away. And I and I read a book, many years ago where…God, the universe, the quantum field, whatever you call it, said, I have sent I sent messages to you your whole life. The only thing you need to do is start watching and listening…And there's so much noise in our daily life that we cannot see because we are busy with other things. And we cannot hear because there's so much…mental noise that it is really difficult to focus on and take, be aware of it. And that's the beauty of the Camino, I think, because you walk there and there's nothing there. There's just you, your feet, the nature, and then you can really see the things which were already there, but now you can really see them. Does it make any sense? What I'm

Helena

blabbing now. Yeah…Absolutely. And I think that perhaps is one of the big draws for why you and I both now live in Spain…in northern Spain as well. and I you know, I'm not saying that we can't get this elsewhere in the world. I do believe that it that we can…all what I'm saying is that through my Camino experience, I was able to…receive…simple acts. Yeah. No agenda other than love and kindness, a loving heart Yeah. And kindness. And, yeah. And in through those gestures, I feel I felt seen, and I continue to feel seen in the way that I live my life out here as well. So Yeah. it's a powerful and in the same way, you know, because I have to ask myself…well, I mean, there's so much I could say, but I moved to Spain in December twenty twenty. And,

and I literally came here to stay with a friend that I had met on that first Camino. and that I had one person that I knew in Spain, and that was that. and slowly or actually quite quickly, I made a bit of a life here for myself. And because I chose to live semirural…again, I was getting continue to receive lessons from the Camino…but through living here. And I continue to receive…kindnesses of…people who…in this moment, I want to say, can see my pilgrim heart. Mhmm. Yep. Can see the good in me. Yeah. You know, the

Danny

yeah, the good and the gold for sure. I you know, I keep wondering about that because…when I walked the first time…I didn't notice these things so much…because at that time, my life was a mess, and I had, blisters that you cannot see my feet anymore. And, I was suffering, and I was busy coping to be to arrive at Santiago…I had that magical experience in Porto Marina in the church while we walked we married one year later there. But…what and then when I were go back to living in Sweden because we lived the last four years in Sweden…and in a very rural area. We live now here in Spain in a village with twenty five people and there we live with five people and they needed to walk in half hour for my neighbor. So it was really lonely. But there also, you go to the tax office and the people are so kind and friendly, which I don't know from the Netherlands

and in Germany also not where I lived. But they were so open and kind, and the people there were so open and kind. But somehow when you walk the Camino…you're more aware of it and it comes more in because you're not soaked in your daily life. You're out of it. And you really can…record state it much better than in when yeah. You live what I did in Sweden for four years. But it was there as well. Having said that, now I live here in Foloria de Rioja…in the big city because here twenty five people live in the village. and I'm busy, you know, I'm here in the inner communal house, and we go shopping to get fresh vegetables of food for the pilgrims. and so there is a kind of a daily life, which I encountered also in Sweden. But still, what you say also these…very simple acts of love

keep appearing more than I encountered them in than in Sweden and in Germany and in the Netherlands, and I cannot speak for England. So but there is a difference, and I still don't I still didn't figure out what is the difference. Is it that I want to see it through pink glasses? And I would like to see a more beautiful than it really is, but I don't feel it like that. How's that for you…Yeah. I mean, I, so, obviously, having lived here now for over five years…I see a changing…can't see country because I only really know the north. Yeah. So

Helena

I can I let what I was say speaking to then is Asturias and my experience of Asturias is the…this is an agricultural land? Yeah. with really you know, it's got the two cities. That was three with Aviles. But…and the Camino what there's three Caminos that two Caminos that go through each of those cities. And once you're out of those cities, you're in agricultural area. Yeah. and so these are a people who are used to living off the land and sharing. And I and I'm speaking sort of very top level now, and I had I don't feel a moment to offend anybody. You know, I'm the immigrant outside looking in. and these were people who are used to living in community as I bear witness to, and they are used to sharing. And what have you got? What do you need? Yep. and I think that although nobody really speaks about Franco, what you have got is a sort of I think how long was he in Fort Knox since the mid thirties, twosies, seventies? So what's that? Forty years

of a fascist regime here. Yeah. People really had to find a way of getting by. Yeah. Remember that the Spanish Civil War actually started at Asturias. You know, Franco came to power on the back of three the deaths of three thousand Asturians. So what I experience here…is the people who are used to helping each other. Yeah. And that makes sense because that steep bank Yeah. I that makes sense because when I was living in Germany, in two thousand four I, was for a couple of years, I started a coaching company called WayForward…and that time, I was also coaching for, the German

Danny

in a ministry long time unemployed people…And that was, of course, after the…wall was gone. So…the East Germany and West Germany came together. And the West German people called the East Per Aussies…And I had some Aussies in these groups and also some, I'll get to know some people from there. And in Germany themselves, in West Germany, the Aussies are being known as very social and helping each other. And, they didn't had so much in that time that the wall was there and Berlin was divided in two and they were behind bars and barbed wire. So you needed to count on each other, and at the same time, it was really risky because if you say something wrong and you had just a quarrel with your neighbor, you could end up in prison. So…and that is, I think, and if it takes so long, like you said also, he came in power here in Spain just before the second world war started and it ended around seventy six, I believe. And,

so that's many decades and it becomes part of the culture. and it takes…really generations to get that out of the behavior of the human system, so to say. So that helping, unconditional helping, I encountered also when I was working or have friends with who were Aussies, who were had to live in the same, only a shorter period of time because the Spanish were for a way long, longer time, in an yeah. There was communist and a fascist, regime. So it makes sense Yeah. For sure. and, you know, so, again, there is all of what we've spoken into. And, you know, and there's an economy of what do you need, what have I got. You know, the exchange culture as well that Yeah. Takes us in takes us again into a different dialogue around value. Yeah. So…yeah. and then suddenly

Helena

I think that's what I'm hearing from you, and I know it in myself, that place that, well, I'm earning and I'm busy and I'm going to work and I'll just, you know I mean, I always home cook to my children, but, you know, that kind of that pushes to just get things done and to get things done efficiently…and what Camino gives…from as soon as we can open our eyes to it is that there's yellow markers, as I found out on that first Camino. They held me. They held me through, you know, all of the processes that I was going through, and they just went this way. It's all complicated. You know, all I had to work out was, oh, right. It's two hundred and forty two kilometers to Santiago. Right. You know? and it was a bit like sort of counting marbles. It was like you see those marker posts go down and Yeah. I was slow when I get to Galicia because those marker posts finally seem to be pointing the right way. oh yeah. You know that story about, like, in serious, you know, the rays facing one way and then you get to Galicia and which way is it? I think which way is it in Galicia? is the sort of, you know, the line

Danny

tell me which way it is, please. It always makes me smile, and it always makes me smile when I make this. I don't know where you talk about it because I don't believe I've been there at that point because they're but, I find it also very confusing, by the way, because and especially when they use the shells and not the arrows, because then I always think is the direction I need to walk, is that the bottom of the shell of the pointy parts of the shell? You know? And I always confused. And when I see an arrow, I then I think, oh, now I know exactly where I need to go. But the shells are really difficult. And Yeah. And I just so I've just realized what it is that it's like, for me, the light is leading towards Santiago. So it's like, follow the light. However you hear those words, follow the light, you know, like and then and in Asturias, it is exactly that. It's the other way. It's like follow the line Yeah. and the light is pointing towards the direction of where you've just come from. Yeah. I see. But I've only ever walked in from Asturias into Galicia, so that's what I know Yeah. I think that certainly as a pilgrim, as a walking pilgrim, I always find that the, you know, Galicia has done a really good job,

of its marketplaces and…Yeah. We know And so you. arrived a couple of times then in Santiago…Yeah. and I was very Go on. Was is there many differences when you arrived there with the Cominos…So the yeah. I mean, the first time, I was walking with a lot of stuff going on. And then so that was in twenty,

Helena

let me see if I can do myself. So that was in twenty seventeen when I was forty nine. And then I went to Lisbon with the intention of walking, as I said, the Lisbon, the Portuguese Camino. And that was in October. And then I'd just done two silent retreats, and I actually felt complete. I felt and, again, this is really a part of, I think, the conversation was that, you know, I had prepped and I was carrying my backpack with me. I'd went and, you know, sat on a retreat in both, Devon in the UK. And then in Portugal, got myself to Lisbon with the intention of walking, and I didn't feel it. Mhmm. I had I'd left my return travel open so that I could be flexible, but Yeah. I didn't feel it. I felt no need to walk. Uh-huh. And it was raining. Yeah. And it was gonna keep raining. And I'm like, I'm not feeling this. Why would I make myself do this just because I said I would? Yeah. Exactly. and this is another part of listening to our deeper wisdom. And so,

yeah, I spent a few days in Porto, got my in Lisbon, got myself up to Porto, got a flight for exactly what I wanted to pay back to London. And within a week of not taking that Camino…and making peace with the fact that I knew that it was not the time to do that Camino, I my very precious and wonderful dog came into my life as a rescue…And he was fully available at home to meet him. Unplanned, you know, he arrived on my doorstep, and that was that. So once again That was in England? Your home in England? Yeah. So once again, the Camino provided for me in a way that I could never have expected because my dog is now seven. He came to me as a very young puppy as a rescue. And, yeah. And he's, you know, he's been my companion through and through the last seven years. So Yeah. And then taking it forward, I moved to Spain December twenty twenty and then,

stopped drinking February twenty twenty three. So these things take time. I think, you know, for me, I had to get understand. I had to get behind the reason why I was drinking. And once I understood that, I stopped drinking overnight. And I've been drinking since my teenage years. Yeah. You know, thankfully, not when I was with my children pregnant, but, you know, it was there was a lot of alcohol in my life. Yeah. And then I walked my next Camino. I could have walked it from my farmhouse. I could have walked it from home, but it would have taken me, through the industrial areas of the Camino Mountains. So we actually chose to go to the other side of our village and start walking from there. And many stories that I could tell you about that, and I won't now because, you know, I have a sense that we'll draw it in. But simply well, that was a Camino broken in two because I had to take a week out in between. I broke my Camino because I've got so many blisters. So my foot was swollen, and I basically had to go home for a week, repair my feet, and then get a new pair of boots, and then start walking again. Oh, okay. As it happens, what I actually walked into Santiago on the day of,

San Juan Oh. of the top of my head was, like, the fifteenth of June. and I didn't even know it. I mean, I you know, it always gives you what you need. Literally, a pilgrim went past me and she was like, you're going to the service at noon. And I was like, what service? She was like, it's a festival day at San Juan. And I was like, oh, okay. and so everybody got a bit of a gallop on. Yeah. I probably just continued to walk at my own speed, got to the cathedral at twenty to twelve. Yeah. But the final, you can't take your motile, your backpack into the cathedral. So there was a little place where you can pay a couple of euros and they guard your backpack while you go into the cathedral to see the bosom

Oh, yeah. big. Did you see that? I see yeah. I've seen them three times. Wow. It's awesome. You're lucky. It's awesome Yeah. But do you know I was reading about it recently on one of the kind of on the one of the Facebook groups that there are times in history when that massive incense ball has come off. So did you read about that? Yeah. It's niching. And one time, actually went out through the front door. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh Yeah. And it goes really with a high speed Yeah. You know

Danny

in twenty eighteen and last year, I, because I walked four times. And the first two times…I saw the I don't know the, what the name of the thing is. I saw it swinging, but also there was a nun…in which she was singing, I could not stop crying…Her voice was like an angel. It was really so beautiful and it really came in my system so…intense. and of course, yeah, you walk the Camino, and the first time I walked only, let's say, one hundred and sixty kilometers instead of eight hundred. So but still for me, it was a full Camino, and you arrive there, you have a lot of emotions, so you're open. Yeah. And then…she started to sing. It was, ah, beautiful…as far as I have heard, she passed away. And, because she was already an elderly lady at that time. And now there is another nun she's singing. She's singing really beautiful

but it doesn't give me that…emotional trigger, so to say. And the ladies are much younger. I don't know if it's something to do with that. But, do you remember that, the nuns singing there? Do you know do you remember? No. I mean, sound sounding I sound in sacred places. So it's a way of really

Helena

connecting with…the sound beyond language. Mhmm. So and I know how deeply, holy that can…feel Yeah. and be. And when I say holy, it's like however anybody wants to experience that word. And I mean it from a place of wholeness as well Yeah. So, yeah, I would've loved, I think, to have heard the singing. I mean, you know, my as I said, my home city was Canterbury. it always gave me great joy to go in just and see and listen to the choir Yeah. You know, singing. There's just the transcendental moments where the voice can take us Yeah. You know, you had your beautiful moment of a voice that carried you to a place that you were able to go to at the At that time. Yeah. And I also noticed last year,

Danny

because I really like to go to the pilgrimage, and I…okay, I live now here in Spain, I need to learn the language. So I hope to make some steps this winter. And, but yeah, last year, of course, I couldn't and still cannot understand it. But I noticed I went to the pilgrimage and then you have the ceremony, and I really could feel it. And last year, this also, the priest from America, he's also in the podcast…father Ben. And I met him in a town I forgot I forget always all the names. I don't know. It's a very famous bridge. and he did a guest, as a guest, the ceremony, the pilgrim mass in English. So there was an American, man or Canadian with his son and me. We were three pilgrims, and for the rest the church was empty. So the priest did the whole servant. But I could understand it. And the whole experience

was…Completely different because I noticed that my brain started to kick in. So he was saying things and my brain was having thoughts about the words. And in the other times, I was just sitting there…totally…in the ceremony, in the sound, and the rituals they perform. And actually, I don't like it anymore that I can understand it. and I had a talk with it, lately with a pilgrim here in the Camino House. And then he said, oh, yeah. So that is perhaps the reason why they always spoke Latin…in spare instead of the language of where the church was in that time. I don't know if that was the reason, but last year, I really noticed the big difference. and that was really, shocking, to be honest. And that is also very interesting because…it made me aware of what your brain can do and disconnect…from things around you. And it was so in my face, you could not deny it. The whole experience is totally different. It felt empty. It felt empty. Or not completely, but more empty. Yeah

Helena

Yeah. I really hear you on that. And, obviously, you know, when I have gone to mass for the experience of being in church to be present for mass. Yeah. I'm not wedded to it. I think I come from a place of, well, I do, curiosity. and, you know, how is this holding me? What's my relationship with the words that I don't understand? The melody. How am I experiencing the environment? And, of course, you know, all of these things mean different things to different people. And the place that I come back to, Danny, for all of my travels, for all of my inner journey and

and experiences is that…I think there are incredible…and fantastically sacred places on the earth's stone buildings. Yeah. For me, that doesn't need to be a church or a cathedral necessarily. And the most sacred place where I can spend my time is nature Yep. When I walk through the forest

when I see the flowers, when I hear the birds' song…Yeah. You know, even maybe see a day a deer running through. Yeah. that is the place where I hear the whispers of the universe. Okay. Yep

Danny

Yeah. Interesting. Because I don't have that. I love nature. But if you talk about where you listen, then…many times I have that when I walk the Camino, to be honest, and I go, I have the habit to go into the church of the place where I am, sleeping and I am

nowadays, many are closed, and it's not so nice. But anyway, when it is open, I just sit in there and I don't pray, I don't meditate, I just sit there and be, nothing else to be honest. And then that connection really is activated. And that's also, what happened to me on my first Camino in Porto Maria. I told it in another podcast that I had a magical experience in that church which lasted for two hours. and so it's really interesting how, humans have…can have…that similar connection because we don't know what kind of connection you have. I don't know because I'm not you and you're not me. But let's say a similar…thing going on in a totally different space. and that's interesting because

if it happens in a church…it can be said it is the church and God. But if it happens in nature, then there is no church and there is no religion. There's just you in the nature. So…it is not connected to a kind of…belief system…when you are in nature…and then it is just dead…I mean, for me, I think the question there is always…who made the tree? Who made the flower? You know, who made the mountains? who made the churches? Yeah. So and again, it's the direct experience of…I've had I have had profoundly mystical experiences in churches. And I have had equally profound mystical experiences

Helena

with the land Yep. Now I cannot say that one experience I would never say that one experience is any more divine than the other. Yeah. To me, they are both the same, and they are both…as deeply enriching…Yeah. And enlightening Yeah. With each other. Yeah. and I personally yeah. I mean, I like the freedom of not having I love the anchor of the stone very often in these beautiful old buildings and the fact that they are a place of pilgrimage…Absolutely. And then I love the expansiveness and the freedom of a forest without walls that connects me with the cosmos. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you say you are now five years living in Spain. I just moved in here on the first of April. I'm retired, so I have a small pension…where I actually could live from here in Spain. In the Netherlands, I would be ending up under the bridge with my small pension

Danny

So and my wife is still writing her books…and supporting the ladies with menopause and after menopause and just before…And, so the inner community house is not the type it is not for me a kind of a work or a business or whatever. It's just sharing back. But you moved to Spain. So what did you do there? I'm curious. I did you were also living in an supporting an arbanger or what kind of business did you did

Helena

it's a whole other story really…Yeah. it's huge. And again, the simplest way to describe it is that I got what I needed Yep. I'm one of those people who…was

well…I received the guidance. I heard the call so clearly…Mhmm. that…I was it was so clear to me that it was the next thing to do. yeah. So I came to Spain…which is really the ported version. And it was that simple because when I received the guidance, the, you know, like, time to go to Spain, it I was like, okay. If I'm gonna do this, make it easy. You know, because we're practical human beings in a practical world. Make it easy. And so it literally, my household took cash buyer within two weeks. Okay. And it was within the pandemic. Oh, okay. Yeah. so it wasn't a great time to be on the move. No. And, yeah. and as I say, I knew one person living in the north, so that was with my friend that I'd arrived at way up in the most freezing mountains. And,

yeah, I stayed there for a couple of weeks and then I got myself somewhere a bit more central and a bit warmer. and I took it from there. and then I was with the land, I would say, for three years, three months. Okay. And I think, I was one of again, just one of those people, which I'm not even sure what people I'm talking about, but I bought, just I bought the house of my dreams Okay. that was, you know, needed a new roof and new walls. Oh, okay. It was a house of my dreams. and it had the most incredible land. And that land and house gave continued my Camino journey. Yeah. And then eventually…I needed to make some just some different decisions. And so, yeah, I still live just outside of the Ibiziosa, which is the town that I came to. And,

Danny

yes. It's really beautiful. and I continue to get lessons, and I'm not done yet. No. So do you have a sense rings. Yeah. Do you have a sense what…where your journey is going to? Because people ask me that here, and I can say that I have a sense where it is going to. But if you would ask me where it is going to, I don't have enough details to explain it

Helena

Yeah. Because I think the biggest invitation in life is really for us to get out of the way…and let and To get out of the way. to yeah. to get out of the way. Yeah. It is you know, time and time again, I get in my own way. Yep. and that causes problems very often. Yeah. And the thing is, I we talk about that here a lot. And I also say that a lot. At the moment, I go out of the way

Danny

Things are starting to, develop and appear, which is, many times mind blowing, unexpected, and mind blowing. And the reason why we don't get out of the way is my conclusion, and perhaps totally wrong, is that because our human fear starts to intervene and we try to get it under control, and, so we feel safe. And that is a very strong mechanism, which causes again and again that we are in the way, that we try to…control God, the universe, the quantum field, whatever you call it, with our limited human brain. So…it doesn't work so well. And I know for myself that if I can relax and be in myself, I'm out of the way of that…whatever it is, and it starts to show cause in a very rapid way. Like the whole story how we ended up here

last year, it started wild walking, and it was so intense, but not because…it was so complicated, but because of the speed. I hardly could get up, get, match the speed, and that gave me stress. So it was developing in such a high speed. It was unbelievable. Yeah. And luckily then it started to slow down, and it took and then it was a couple of months

more that I could match the speed. And then poof, it went off like a rocket again. And to be honest, at this moment, things are developing again in a very high speed, which I hardly can deal with. And, I have no clue where it goes, but I have a sense where it goes. that there is a sense, but I cannot express exactly, what it is. And that is something I could not live many years ago. Then I would be terrified and try to get it under control. And that's now. I I'm fine with it. I'm really relaxing in that part that I've oh, okay. I have a feeling where it goes to, a sense where it goes to. I don't know how it will be. I don't know what it will be. And it and I also don't know the speed, but there's so much trust in that whole thing that I can rest in that space. And that's, for me, the biggest blessing I have ever received in my whole life

Helena

Yeah. I absolutely hear you. and I, you know, I think it's very important to say this isn't about application. This isn't about, well, I don't need to take responsibility. In fact, going coming full circle, what I've learned is actually how much personal responsibility I do need to take. And at the same time, because life's a dance, there is this beautiful place of

of surrendering. Mhmm. and, you know, if I look back at that incredible the world's gripped by fear in Oh, yeah. Twenty twenty. you know, it was an incredible year. and I get this message. and suddenly, in the middle of pandemic, I'm selling my house and I'm moving to Spain. and I don't have a plan, but I trust the guidance that I got. And then…within three months of moving to Spain, I bought my farmhouse within nine days. Yeah. And I know how fast when

when, I believe, when things are aligned, things can move very quickly. Lightening fast. Take it to make it. You can't take it to make it. So, you know, I have a very wise friend who always says, follow the joy. Follow the joy. What lights you up? Yeah. and, you know, and a quite a question that I personally ask myself always is, yeah, I imagine that I'm sort of at a t junction. Yeah? and I'm like, well, am I turning left or right? No. Where am I feeling? Am I coming from fear or love? Yeah. Exactly. because it I can know when I'm in fear, and I can feel the constriction there. And my job then is to take care of me. Yep. Yeah. and then okay. what does Helena need? What does little Helena need? You know? and then it's kind of, you know, whether it's the same thing or something different, it's, am I coming from a place of love? Mhmm. It's in and this is the inherent kindness, again, that we've spoken into the community Yeah. You know, maybe you just mentioned,

Danny

follow, the sun. Was that what you said? The joy. The joy? but it could also mean, alcohol…Well, I you know, fine. If that's people's past, follow the booze. And then at some point, you'll realize that it's not giving you perhaps what you want. Yeah. Exactly. I think, you know, I've not been able to Yeah. who's to say you can't do that? You know? Yeah. I had a lot of fun with alcohol. And then what I had to realize was that it was built on a very shaky foundation. Yeah. That's true Yeah. So follow the joy. I think when I talk about that, it's follow the ways in which

Helena

you feel I'm better off speaking in the I because I can own that. I follow I know when I am lit up by something. I know when I get a whole body yes. Yeah. In those places, that's where things light up, and the next step becomes…the next step Yeah. It goes automatically then, one of the other. and, it feels for me like I'm on the misty road

Danny

and I and I can always see one step in front of me, but not the other. But I know there is a sense I need to go that direction. And as I go, further and further, then the next step I can see, and the next step I can see, and the next step and see. The only thing what is causing you to stop…or put on the lights is when you get so afraid that you don't trust that you're well-being taken care of. And then you put on the lights, and then suddenly the whole road is lit, and the whole thing changes. and yeah. and that I noticed myself. So for me

I follow a very gentle…push…And when for me, it is like when I notice…that there is quite a lot of emotion there involved, then it is me, Danny. When it is hardly any emotion, then it is the path I need to walk. And I trust that in the meanwhile so much that I really can say, okay, one step. I don't feel so much emotion, but that seems to be I need to do, and then I do it. And then things evolve in a light speed way. It is unbelievable. And I can imagine that, listeners of this podcast and this episode…could think like, oh, okay. Wow. where are they talking about? But at the same time, I hear these stories

every day, multiple times a day from the pilgrims. So we are talking about something. So if you are listening to this episode, you did not walk the Camino yet, it could sound as very spiritual and, yeah, not really tangible. But the thing is if you are here and if you walk to Camino, you can relay much better to it perhaps. But here in the Camino House, I hear these talks a lot, every day, multiple times a day in different forms, but they all report about the same thing. So Helena Yeah. just on that, Danny, which is the, you know, again, it will give you what you need. Yeah. I set out. That first Camino, I set out for a long walk across Spain with a boyfriend. Yeah. And now you're living here. and now I'm living here and all of what's happened in between and because they didn't fully answer it.

Helena

actually, I did we did actually reconnect, this sort of boyfriend from that first Camino. We did reconnect…by messages, and we've had a couple of calls from a place of friendship and goodwill. And that's nice that too, that would be, like, nine years later, has come…it it's closed. You know? The Yeah. the walking off, what on earth happened to you? Now I feel like it's come back into the ream of, no. We each had the journeys that we needed to have. how are you doing? Yeah. And it's been a pleasure to be able to speak with him from a place of friendship. Yeah. so that's a good thing. The as for the what next, I just want to acknowledge I'm not done yet. As in, I know that one of the things that I really yearned for is more connection with the spirit of Camino. more connection with pilgrims. And to some extent, I get that by being on the Camino Norte. I see many pilgrims walking through as they for anybody listening who's done the sort of,

River Desaea to Kologongar to Yukon stretch, you know, and if I've got a fruit bar in my, you know, on offer, I'll, you know…So there is that connection, but, you know, I really admire and celebrate what you are doing at the Anacomina Health Study. Yeah. this is so you're right. Yeah. Because yeah. But also, it is like I people ask me here, how is it? How is this what you do? And then I said, you know, when you walk the Camino, you have while walking, let's say, the eight hundred kilometers, you have, let's say, twenty very, profound meetings, which resonates with you for many years

Danny

But I have these meetings a couple of times a day, every day…And that's…overwhelming…beautiful, and mind blowing. And the thing is the big thing is I just spoke, a young lady from Italy today. She walked to Camino for the first time, and she said, there's nothing something like the inner Camino house on the Camino…and the big difference is because we literally invite people in our home and they are home for a moment and there's a big space just to be who you are. and because of that, I am not working for the pilgrims, which I would do when I have an alberga…or a cafeteria, and I'm with the pilgrims, but not really. I see them and I serve them. But now I have three quarters of an hour work in the morning for preparation before I open the doors and can invite pilgrims, and an hour, three quarters of an hour till an hour at the end, and that's it. And for the rest, I have so much time to be together with the pilgrims

And, I also mentioned it, I believe, in the previous podcast, which is not online yet…And also today, it starts to…and that's one of the things which could develop and I don't know. I'm always afraid to speak it out because then it could kill it. I don't know. But it could be it would be awesome when there are every twenty, twenty five kilometers from Filoria de Rioja till Leon, an inner camino house. You know, a place where people live and invite people in their home because they're the pilgrims are literally in our living space and in our living room and terrace where we sit in the evening, and invite people in their home and be together with them in this way. That would be, I believe, a very

profound support for the pilgrims. Because then you can really take the Maseta where a lot of people are afraid for a Maseta. I really don't understand it because that's the best part of the whole Camino Frances. That's where it happens. But, yeah, who knows

Helena

Yeah. Well, the best part of the Camino, Frances, for you. For me. Yeah. And I hear also from other people who walk it. There are more good parts of the Camino. Yeah. But and I know, but the reason difference there, you are forced on the Camino to go inside, and there was a lot of people who skip it

Danny

because…the, yeah, the fear of what the meseta could…be and the intensity it could have which is in my experience, yes, it can have that, but also not. But, anyway, that's something. So, what you want to really want to say to your fellow pilgrims and Camino family, that…you think, okay. This is really what I want to get across, what they the pilgrims are to be pilgrims…should know, or I want to share that with them. Oh, I've only got what comes through in this moment is probably three things. The first thing I would say is…put your mobile phone down. Mhmm. Really, I see. But I just think it's a social nightmare these days if we are so detached from our environment…that, you know, I see people, yeah, put the phone down. and pick it up from time to time. Not anti mobile, but put it down.

and the other thing is…because we've spoken a lot about the kindness that we've received and being in flow with that kindness. Mhmm. You know, that sometimes you may have something that another person's needs and never be afraid to be part of that circle. Mhmm. step into the power of what you can give as well as what you can receive. Yeah. and the third thing is

Helena

you never ever know…what's going on for that other person Yep. Never can you know…So you know, to everybody, like, again…my job is me. And my job is to be the best human being that I can be. Yep. And it probably stops there. Yep. Because from that space, I radiate. Yep. Yeah. I agree. Yep Yeah. That's so I think that's probably yeah. And enjoy. Really enjoy. Yeah Enjoy the rain, the sun, the blisters, the heat. Enjoy. And enjoy that you don't enjoy. Exactly. Because the moments are also there. That you're walking, that you think, why, oh, why do I do this Yeah. and finally, I think don't be surprised if you end up in strength

Yeah. I always warn people. If they never walk the Camino and they said to me in the past, oh, I want to walk the Camino. And then I always say, oh, you sure? Yeah. Why? Because you could get hooked and you never know what happens. No. Not me. And then you see them walking over and over again. It's so funny. Yeah. For me also, you know, started in twenty yeah. I started twenty thirteen. And sixteen years later or seventy years later, I find myself back living in north of Spain

Danny

Wow…Okay. Thank you very much. And, it was a really nice, conversation and, a deep, discussion about a lot of things. So thank you. And, for the people who are still listening, I really appreciate when you also…push the button, share your story, and also join as a participant. And, I have a dream, and the dream is to have three hundred sixty five episodes…so that we can listen every day to a story of a pilgrim and take the Camino home. Because, I start to get more and more the feeling that, the world could use some more Camino

in…not only in north of Spain, but in other places in the world. And I perhaps this podcast is a small contribution to that we bring Camino outside of north of Spain or outside of Spain. So thank you very much. And, yeah, we keep in contact. Thank you…Alright. Thank you, Danny. Okay. Thank you

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