Episode 9 - Five Pilgrims in León - We arrived as strangers and became a Camino family

Danny

Okay, fellas. Thank you very much to join the, Inner Camino podcast. A Self-Reflection podcast for pilgrims, by pilgrims. And, for the listeners, I'm quite excited, to be honest, because, I see, you don't you will not see it. This is only audio. But I see five pilgrims in front of me. Then instead of interviewing one pilgrim, I have a whole bunch sitting next, opposite of me. And they are now in León. And we met each other in Viloria de Rioja in the, yeah, the resting place for the pilgrims I started there, the Inner Camino House. And, yeah, I'm very excited to do this. please, could you each one of you present yourself to the audience?

Bob

good afternoon, Danny. This is Bob Wise. I'm from the United States, San Diego, California. Thanks for having us today. Hello, Danny.

Carlos

My name is Carlos Rebez. I am from the United States from Knoxville, Tennessee.

Nancy

And I'm his wife, Nancy. Hello, fellow pilgrims.

Melissa

Hello, Danny and fellow pilgrims. I'm Melissa Flynn from Chicago, Illinois.

Ilona

Hello, everybody. I'm Ilona from Holland. So thank you very much.

Danny

I want to do one extra round before we go into the stories. I just it popped up in my mind. could each one of you briefly describe why you started the Camino.Yeah.

Bob

I'll start up here. Danny, this is, Bob over here from San Diego. first of all, thanks for hosting us at the Camino House. That was amazing. So far, one of our highlights of the trip. We all loved it. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you. That was awesome. for me, I think initially, when I came, it was for the adventure and the challenge, especially as I feel like I'm getting older to see if I could walk five hundred miles. And I think it was kind of a, you know, a blunt thing. Like, let's just get out there and do it. but then the lessons learned were, you know, for me on the trail were just, hey. Slow down and enjoy the trail. Much like, hopefully, when they go home, you know, take that back home. Hey. Slow down and enjoy Yeah. Life and what we're doing there. so that's kinda my lessons learned. And then the other part of it too is just the appreciate all the small things, like, as we're walking, the five of us, you know, a little bit of shade or, you know, a park bench to take a nap on or a banana that we'll maybe share between the five. we end up sharing almost everything. So, which is a great thing. And then, honestly, the best thing so far about it is not the challenge, and it's not the walking. It's really just meeting all the people from around the world. Yeah. And, honestly, these four people here, which I don't know if we touched, Danny, when we talked to you, but none of us other than, Nancy and Carlos had met. We just all been on the trail, and we've been together now for twenty days.

Danny

It's been fantastic. Typical Camino family, and you're still together. Yeah. Which because last year when I was walking, I lost four times my family. Oh, so Yeah. So I so, yeah, I like that you say oh, because I really felt sorry, and you know how men are Yeah. So Carlos, so what is your reason why did you start?

Carlos

So yeah. Thank you, Bob, Danny, for having us as well. I just wanted to say a little bit about what Bob said as well too. The love and caring that you and your wife showed at the house there was just magnificent and just something that I mean, I left there just in awe because you are not doing it for anything other than just to help people out and to make them feel welcome and just to help anyway you can. And so the bug in my years has started in two thousand four when I first heard about this Camino. You know, I always said, you know, one day I wanna do this. And, many years later, I decided what? I'm I need to stop saying one day I'm going to do something. Because we're not guaranteed tomorrow. We're not guaranteed the next hour. We're only guaranteed where we're ready today, right now. And, I was very fortunate and blessed to be able to retire, about a month and a half ago. You know, that's what I told Nancy. I said, Nancy, let's go ahead and go do our dreams and let's go do this Camino thing and where with all the reasons for the spiritual, for the physical, and just to go out there and do it. Some of the things that I've learned in this Camino is and I know that I am always go in my real world. It is one of the things about, you know what? Slow down. It's okay to slow down. It's okay to look around and do those things. And one of the things that I really wanted to make sure happened during this community is not just all about me, as to how we can help somebody else in the community. How to encourage somebody because there could be people that are hurting. I mean, I've been very blessed out with too many, twenty years, whatever, in my life, and I've been very physically involved and all. So physical part of it, I don't wanna say that was it is easy, because it's not. But I know there'll be some people that the problem would hurt. And if I can say this, one of the, like, greatest things that I think that we can do is we're walking up and I don't know where it was at because every day just kinda goes in together. And we saw this lady on the side of the road. her name is Lisa from Columbia, South America, which, by the way, that's where I'm from. I was born in Columbia. And she was in tears. She was hurting, and she had that look like, how am I gonna possibly do this? And it was just her sitting there. And the five the all of us who got even hesitated, we walked up to her and said, hey. Can you help me? And we were able to patch up her, blisters and help her and encourage her. It is I'm so proud of Lisa. I haven't seen her several days down the road that she has gone from, I don't know if or not I can do this, to, you know what? I am going to do this. Yes. You know? and if we all of us play one little part in making her dream come true, that'll be a hundred percent worth for me to be able to help her with that Yeah.

Danny

So You know, while you're talking that, I remind I go back in my, in time. when I worked for first time, that was in twenty thirteen. I did that with my son. He was thirteen at that time. And, we'd only did from O Cebreiro, just the last hundred sixty kilometers. I never hiked in my whole life. So after a couple of days, I could not see my feet anymore of blisters. And my son, he said to me, hey, daddy. You can do this. You can do this. You know? And there was so much support from him. And then later on, he was standing on his poles days later, totally finished. And it was me lifting him up, you know, and that, that's so. there was a deep bonding there between the two of us, at a deeper level than ever before. But that you what you say, Carlos, that you see somebody then, totally stranger, and at that moment, there is a bonding happening, which we cannot explain. Yeah. Definitely. For sure. Yeah. And yeah. So thank you. So, your wife I forgot your name. Sorry again. Oh, no worries.

Nancy

Nancy Yeah. Nancy. Lisa. It was funny how God put us running into Lisa at the end of two days, I think, in a row. And they were two tough days, and I thought, wow. Look how god put us together with her again so we could encourage her some more. But the third time, she was encouraging me saying, I'm feeling great. I'm feeling good. And I was like, oh, this day is never gonna end. She's like, you can do it. So it was me how we saw it flip, and she would turn and was encouraging me, which I thought was wonderful. Yeah. I came on the Camino to celebrate my husband's retiring and, which was well earned.for so many years. He worked hard for his family, and it was great to do something that, I knew he would love. And I had no idea how much I would love, and I do love it. It's so fun. And just meeting these guys along the way, I keep telling them every time we talk about it, I choke up, but I don't wanna see them go. Melissa's going tomorrow, one of my babies. I'm the oldest one here at sixty two years old. So one of my babies is leaving the nest. And we're happy for her, and we plan in the future to stay together. Yeah. That's great. Yep. For sure.

Danny

Yeah. Mhmm. So.why did you start at, Camino?

Melissa

so, again, thanks for having us on this. So I started the Camino. It has been something I wanted to do for years. My college roommate did it a couple years ago, and I couldn't go with her. And it's just always been on my mind when I was talking to one of my kids. I have three boys. And I said, well, maybe I'll wait till I retire. And he just said to me, why? Why would you wait? You're healthy now and, like, as Carlos' point, who knows how you'll be when you retire, so go do it. And I think the other part of this journey is the family that isn't with us. So we've made this amazing Camino family who has picked me up more than once in Paul, helped me with my blisters. But to have I joke that my husband is mission control back home because he's planned everything. If I need to change, he takes care of it. He'll sign off. Mission control's got you. It's been incredible. And coming by myself as a woman, I was a little bit nervous of how I was gonna do. Start with the big hill on day one. I don't know if you know Chicago. We have no hole no hills whatsoever, much less a mountain. So I was really nervous about the Pyrenees. And, again, every time, like, they say the Camino provides as I was walking slowly up the Pyrenees, I felt great the whole day. I met these women from Colombia. It seems to be a theme on this trip. And, we just walked and talked up that hill of that mountain, and it was fantastic.And, being with these five people has given me the confidence that I could do the second half of this on my own.Because somebody will be there, and I'll be there for somebody else we've shared soon. So.when you do the second half on your own, it's supposed that you don't meet in second Camino family, which I doubt because that happens me also in all my Caminos several times. But, anyway, so suppose that you would walk, alone. Mhmm. Do you feel safe to do that? I do because, on this trip, on this journey, anytime I haven't or not even I've never felt unsafe, but sometimes where you just sort of get that feeling of this may not be great, somebody comes along. Like, I met Ilona one night, and I said, hey. Let's go grab food. And the next day, I was able to walk with them. So I felt like I've never felt alone even though I'm here by myself. And now I know that moving forward, if I need something, help will appear. As crazy as that sounds, I don't feel scared to move forward. and like you said, I'm sure I'll meet my Camino family part two not to be replaced. Just adding. I know. No. Not. It's just different. There's no replacement. No Yeah.

Danny

Okay. Thank you. Ilona.Yes.

Ilona

for me, it starts with talking with a friend. She was, before her fiftieth birthday, go by yourself for a month on vacation in a different country. And I was listening to her. I was thinking, oh, it'd be so great to go by your own and have that experience and be by yourself to yeah, you to, be with yourself and not other family. So you have to decide all the, things for yourself. And at that moment, I realized it's possible for me also to do it. And I read the book, The Camino, and I was inspired by that. And I was thinking, I can do that, and then I walk and stay over in a little town, be there for a night, and walk again. So, at that moment, I was thinking about maybe I can do that next year of the next, maybe about five years. And my husband was saying that if you wanna do that, you have to, put a date in your calendar and go for it. so with that support from home, I planned my own Camino, and there I was standing on my own, feet, going to the airport and then going to the Camino by my own and being there and start the Camino. And on the Pyrenees, they say, don't go to the left. And I was the whole time thinking, don't go to the left. You did? And I was standing there, and I didn't know if there's a path on the right because I didn't see it. And I was thinking, okay. I'm walking here by myself, then I have to wait for other pilgrims behind me. And I was waiting, and there was both Carlos and Nancy. And she took.me with them and say, come along with us and share the first moment the drinks and food and everything with me. And so we didn't go to the left. It's all of us. And it was so, beautiful to do it together and be there.

Danny

Yes. That's funny because, don't go to the left. I went to the left.Oh. I didn't notice because I was just following like a sheep. Two other pilgrims who went to the left. And, so I just was following. And then I think of three, four kilometers down the road. then I thought it is quite quiet here.So it I think it's cost me an extra six kilometers or something.which was no fun at all. So I always say that I'm a very slow learner. who wants to share his story, which.really, for you, was till now the most impactful.insane, emotional thing you encountered.on the Camino. We don't need to go through the circle. We can. Doesn't matter.

Bob

But, who wants to share that? I mean, I don't think I have, like, a oh, an oh, wow moment, but something else as we're talking about here, and we've all talked about this, is just the, the big lesson learned for us, for me at least, on the Camino is you know how it goes. You have, you know, a thirty kilometer day and you're tired, and you kinda just wanna get there. And when you pass something, you think, like, well, should we peek and take a look inside that little church or not? Like, no. Let's just keep going. We're making miles. is, always say yes. So that's our thing. So even passing, your place. We almost passed it, and there was just one pilgrim that said, hey. There's, like, free food down there. You guys should go check it out. And all of us were like, I'm not really hungry, and we're like, let's just go. Let's say yes. And, again, we're so happy we did. And then, another example of that was this tiny little church. And, you know, we almost passed it, and then we went back. Like, let's just take a look inside. And we met the nicest little nun there who blessed us all and gave us, little medallions. And she wanted pictures with us and told us about her time as, you know, volunteering, and it was just so amazing. so our my lesson learned too on this is while we're doing this and in life is just say yes. If you're like, should I? Just say yes. And so that has been and so now whenever we think of something, like, should we go see that church just the other day? Yeah. We're like, should we go inside that church? And they're like, yeah. Let's just go check it out. And then we went there. They were ringing the bell, and the guy ringing the bell is like, you guys wanna ring the bell, the church bell? And so all five of us Oh, okay. They need the church bell. It was just fun. You know? That was Yeah. Bragging. Yeah. So Yeah. That's kind of another lesson learned for us is just say yes because you never know where that's gonna lead you.

Melissa

And Yeah. That's true. I would just add to that, anyone who is listening, that it may not be a lightning bolt that happens. People talk all the time about the Camino's gonna change your life. It's unbelievable. It's amazing. It's getting life changing. And I think, at least for me, it hasn't been this lightning bolt, but it's slowly getting under my skin and changing the way I think. And we've all talked about what we wanna bring back. And as Bob was saying, you know, normally, I'm up at five zero two every day and thinking I'm late. I already have so much to do. And now just focusing on I need to walk, I need to shower, I need to wash my clothes, and I need to eat reminds you that a lot of things that fill our day aren't essential. And Exactly. Made me appreciate so much more the people around me that sometimes maybe I think I'm too busy to catch up with or take time. And. all of that has been changing in my brain and wanting to bring back, but it hasn't felt like a lightning bolt, but just a slow just creeping into my subconsciousness. And I think that's pretty amazing too Yeah.

Danny

For me, it was Carlos, yeah? Yeah. Sorry. Continue.

Ilona

Yeah. You asked, us about the wow moments. For me, it was one of the moments that we were invited for, visiting in a mass in the church, And we, walk in and, standing there, and I see a really old man. He was, more than ninety years old, I know for sure. And he was so old and standing there with his boys, And I was thinking, oh, that man is doing his best. He's coming to the church, have his clothes on, doing his thing for us standing here in the evening. And I was thinking, sometimes I think in evening, I'm tired, I'm laying on the couch and, it's, so much things to do in my life. And then seeing that man on that age doing that was for me a wow moment to.do the things you can and you want to do in your life because it's possible of every age, if you believe in it. Yes Yep. And, he was a priest? Yeah. You said a priest? Yes. Okay. Yep. Yeah.

Carlos

for me, it was, I forget which town it was, but it's kinda early. we're at the Albergue already. We're kinda tired and everything. And Melissa comes into the Albergue, and she says, here, I need.some things to clear to fix somebody's, blister. So she runs out there, and there was a Korean man. His name is, Ken. Kain? Kain. And the poor guy had a blister on. He didn't know what to do. he looked like he wrapped stuff all around it. So she helped him, and so he was very thankful. And he's a very happy person, and Ilona gave him the trail name of happy man. And then so what happened was, like, a day or two later, he was telling me he said, listen. I wanna buy you a drink. And I said, no. You don't have to see it. And next time, I'm going to buy you a drink. I said, okay. anything of it. So we get to the next time, everything. And all of a sudden, we're in the town, and I see him riding a bicycle. Like, and he saw me, and he would have thought that he saw a million dollar bill. And he was so excited. He comes running to me, and he shows me this phone. The bill is I mean, the, little town in Stena, which is, I think, like, three kilometers away. And he said, I've been looking for you because I promised you I will get your beer. You know? Oh my goodness. This guy is his word is really means he's solid, and you have to figure it. And that's exactly all you do. If we say we're gonna do something, we need to follow through and do it. And to this day, it's just touching the fact that he cares so much to go do this to go rent a bicycle right from the town, look for me, and get some beer Yeah.

Bob

Insane. Yeah. There's definitely a shared bond, and I think it's going through the trials and tribulations as you're hiking and everybody's tired that obviously, the five of us have. But, you know, we see so many pilgrims, and it's easy in town to spot them because they've got the Leukotape on their heel and their toes wrapped up. Different. And they walk on flip flops and sandals. Everybody's got flip flops. You're maybe limping a little bit, but, you know, anybody you see, you stop and chat with and, like, hey. How you doing? How are your feet? Can I help you? know? Or somebody comes by and they're like, hey. I'm hungry, and anybody here will just give them the last thing they have. So That'd be good. It's, it's pretty special community, not just of the five of us, but of all the pilgrims that you know, pilgrims and pilgrims. And I think that's something we can take home too that, you know, hey. Help your fellow man. And Yeah. It's not just a trail, but it's a life lesson.

Nancy

Yeah. My moment for me was the first day, and it could have changed my whole Camino because I found out my cousin passed away. Right. And every moment we left the Albergue, my husband looked at his text and found out my cousin passed away, and his wife was not gonna have a funeral for him. Well, fifteen minutes later down the road, I run into a priest that is, well, what's his name? Of Patrick? Father Patrick, who is here with so many young men that are in the seminary. Oh, he was, here also. Yes. Well, we are there. Can I eat the guitar? Yeah. From Ohio. And he somehow picked up, and he said, are you doing okay? And I said, what and he said, will you do me a favor? Will you pray for my and I feel bad. I can't remember her name. That is having cancer. And I said, yes. I will. And I said, will you do me a favor? Will you pray for me? My cousin just passed away. He goes, well, do you care if I stop and say some words for him right now? So to me, I would have been thinking, oh, okay. You know, my cousin's not having a funeral. It would have been on my mind. It would have been on but a priest right then stopped and said a few words for my cousin so I could let it go and go on with my Camino and give me. and he gave me this little, Marian medallion.and everything, but it just gave me that peace that something could have disrupted my whole walk. Yeah. That it took care of it right there, and I could leave it behind and have peace. And my family could have peace knowing that Yeah. The father had said some words for him. So that was a pretty good moment.

Danny

Yeah. And that's such a in your face, Camino provide moment. Yes. It that's yeah. Because many of these moments are in normal life also there, but we don't notice them. Yeah. Mhmm. Good to know. and when you walk to Camino, you're more open for it, and then you really start to notice them. And my wife and me, we I don't know if I told you, that in the house where you were with me, but we call this something is taking care of us. And, so a priest would say God, and somebody from the new age spiritual scene would say the universe, and somebody who's more into quantum physics related to human beings would say the quantum field is taken care. To be honest, I really don't know, but I know it is there. In that sense, I'm not a believer. I'm a knower. There I know that there is something taking care of us. The only thing what we discovered.is that we need to train our instinct to keep.at peace when we don't know where we go to. And that's the biggest trouble because, like, when we, sold our house in Sweden January this year, and the day after, the deal for the Albergue I wanted to take over here in the Camino this year.exploded in my face. And so we didn't have a house to live in two months, and no Albergue to go to live. So then panic comes in, of course. So your instincts wants to save you. And you want to do a lot of things. Like, I was writing emails. I didn't send them. I met was making plans, throw them away. So I really give my body to the possibility to express what it needed to express. But and I can do that now because there's such a deep knowing that something is taking care of us. And then you I call this then you get out of the way, because I don't try to control it. it is like I try to control my the whole universe with a very small human brain. And the brain the power and the creation power of God, the universe, the quantum field is unlimited. And then I try to take over. How should that go? Mhmm. Yeah. It should work. Usually Yeah. So and, but the thing is, the instinct is so powerful, it overtakes everything. And.God also said in the bible, I gave you free will. So at the moment that you are in contraction, you want to take over the control, then he would say, okay, fine with me, do what you want to do. And then many years later, when you have learned your lessons, then you can say, okay, I rest now. And I know you are taking care of me. And then yeah. and now walking the Camino, you are more open for.the signals who always were there, but now you can spot them easier. that's how I look at it. I don't say that this what I'm just saying now is true, but that's how I perceive it. Yeah. So.everybody told then what you wanted to tell about what you took out of that. What I'm curious about.is when you go home.do you have an idea how you can take the Camino home.how could you do that.Yeah. Beside listening to the podcast? Yeah. Can you talk about it?

Bob

We did talk about this Yeah. I think, like I said earlier, for me, it's just kind of slowing down life and enjoying it as it is and maybe a little bit simpler, you know, and enjoying the small things, you know, in your life and appreciating them and appreciating small things. So and how do you plan to take make sure that you are slowing down life? Because when life is going fast like crazy, your instincts will take over and push you to go fast again. So how can you do that? I guess we're gonna have to see how that plays out, but, I think just knowing that you wanna slow down is that just knowing that you want to is probably step one and then, figure it out.

Danny

And then you can't, very stubborn. Yeah. And what I notice myself, I need to be aware that I'm not slowing down Sure. Because it is when it is a habit, most of the time we even don't know that we are doing it. Only when you get, a blister on your feet or you get sick, and then your body says, now you need to slow down. And then, oh, sorry. I forgot about that Yeah.

Melissa

I would say too, seeing these seminarians and father Patrick in this group of the five of us, each day something inspires me that they do. Being at your Donativo and just seeing the love of what you took care of all the pilgrims that were coming through your house, The nun in that small church who just when she prayed over you, it was like the best hug you ever got. And just seeing all these selfless acts, I teach high school, and I'm hoping to help my students understand there's something beyond just them. And at high school, that's a really hard thing to understand. So if I can even get just a small portion of them to think how they can contribute to the environment they want to see around them. That will feel like I've kept the Camino going. And on a very small, easy thing to do, just really making sure we take more time to do family dinners. Our youngest is only gonna be home for another year before going to university, and I wanna make sure that we don't just speed through this last year, but actually take the time to be with each other.

Danny

Yeah. Exactly. So that means to for both of you, the Camino will have already an effect when you come home. Mhmm. Yes. For the other three?

Nancy

Do you have an idea how to do that? Well, for me take it home. For me, it's when I see someone that's in need, don't just acknowledge in your head, oh, boy. That person looks sad and just keep going on with my day. I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna okay. That person was put in my way for a reason, so stop and try to change you know, help them in any way if you can. I know this group. We found that if we came across someone that was a little grumpy, we did what our best to turn that grumpy. frown into a smile or make them laugh. And Yeah. We did see maybe once, but the rest of the time, we did. Every time we couldn't change. But, I mean, at least we tried. You know? And I'm gonna take that back with me. I wanna Yeah. Try to make a difference in someone's life and let them know. You never know. They might not have anyone that they think cares. But I'm gonna take time and let them know, even though I'm a stranger, I care. Yeah. Hopefully, I can do that when I get. Yep.

Carlos

For me, Jay, is, going back to Lisa. I can still picture in my mind the way that she looked when we first saw her. Just completely defeated.Some people were walking by. Nothing against them because they were focused on what they were doing, and we took the time to stop. And so it's important for me to realize that there are a lot of people out there that they think they can't do x. But I think if they get their mindset right, I said, you know what? I can do x, whatever that x might be. and if we can just help in any just a little bit, then we'll never know the difference we're ever making this person. Back to the Melissa's thing, we see somebody that looks sad whenever or they go to the grocery store when they're kinda grumpy. You don't know what's going on in their world. They could have or their family should be sick or you never ever know. And the first thing should never be yeah. I can't believe this person's so rough. And we should say this, you know, what's going on in our world or his world? If we just say hi or how are you doing or call them by name, if that changes your moment for a little one split second, then that's made your day worthwhile. So take that as an impression and know that, you know, who knows what they're going through.

Danny

Yeah. And, yeah, you're totally right. And I.what pops in my mind now is an event here in the inner Camino House, I think, three, four days ago. there was a man coming in, and, you know, the how do you call it? The terrace? a patio? patio.A patio? Yeah. So my funny Dutch English. So the patio. And he was sitting there, and he really looked like, a teddy bear. You know? You could cuddle with him. So really nice. And I.you know how I am. So I went to him, to chat. And within.minutes, he became aggressive verbally. And in a way that was really, wow. And then, yeah, you've been in my Inner Camino House. And when we share together, the hearts of the people, they open. And at that moment, you are really vulnerable. And I was in that state. Yeah. So and then something like that happens, and it hits you like a rocket. So I really need to recuperate at that moment. And I tried to.quiet him down, didn't work out. And finally, I just the only person in the first month I needed to send away. Oh, god. and that was and it really shocked me. I was busy with it for the whole day. But the thing is, like, what you say, Carlos, you don't know why. You don't know. You have no clue. So we need to Yeah. And of course, you need to protect yourself against the anger and the it's not about the why, but it's about the how. And you sometimes you need to stop the how. So that's why I send him away. And I've no clue about the why because I never talked with him so long that I even could have a small insight about what it could be. No clue. Nothing. But I know for sure that there is something there, which I don't know. And I know. people called me naive for my whole life already. because there is a deep knowing that people in the core are love. Mhmm. Even when they kill. Mhmm. and when he did that, there is that other core there as well Yeah. So you still can open your heart for that part, but you need to protect the how. You're as against the how. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. it just popped in my mind because you talked about it. And you can imagine it was keeping me busy for the whole day. And what I do.when something like that I find myself doing that. I didn't know. I was in the car driving to Belorado to have a meal, and I put on my Inner Camino Song. And I create a page on the website, especially for me, to be honest, because there I could put it in automatic repeat. So, if you cannot do that in your app. So. and I did that, and it takes me ten minutes, fifteen minutes to drive there. And the song really helped me to come back to that space of non judgment again. So that helped me. And, but it is sometimes very challenging to when people do a destructive how to move to the why of them. Yes. It's not easy. Yes. Sometimes But it's possible. The answer, that's just a step. Maybe you just showed him a little, planted a little seed, but you had to send him on his way. But you never know. I never know. And most likely, I will never know. and that's fine. And maybe he need it. That's all you can do. Yeah. Yes. I don't know. But it comes in.like a hammer, and, you need to deal with it, and it's okay. Yeah. But, anyway, I we're drifting from that, but I just needed to. popped in my mind.And for you? And.what I was thinking about a lot when I was walking the first time, and the second time, and then the third time, and I encountered again and again the same, that you connect very quickly on a deep level with other people from all over the world. And then and also, of course, last time, and here I have that every day, many times a day. I was thinking a lot about how is it that we can do that here and not somewhere else? Do you guys have an idea what why is that possible on the Camino?

Melissa

We joke that each day is a year. So if we've known each other twenty days, we've known each other twenty years because day one, maybe you're asking just the surface questions. Where are you from? What are you doing? By day twenty, we're asking everything. Good to get here. Good. Really good. And we've asked that too. Like, boy, we could solve the world's problems if everyone would just walk the Camino and talk. And Yep. I think we've all said at one point, the goal is simply to finish and to connect to people, but there really isn't a finish. So, really, the journey is everything on the Camino and just.your willingness to talk. Like, you don't you just normally, you wouldn't go up to a stranger at a restaurant and ask them to join you. Right. But on the Camino, it feels weird not to do that. Yeah. Exactly. Yep. Be, again, bring that back and make it just a little bit more normal. And it may not be for a while, and people may look at you strange, but you'll find somebody just like, okay. That Yeah. Their day with no alternative. It can change.

Carlos

I can have to do one thing, and that's just because you're doing the podcast with us. And, again, I know we all really appreciate you letting us be on it. But one of the things that I think and it's, it's complement to you and your wife because there's so many people who have come from your house. And then I guarantee you, many of them, if not, they're gonna go back home and they're gonna tell their friends and their families, say Yeah. This couple opened up their house to us. It's not like they had a little shed on the side. They opened up their house, and they made sure that we were comfortable. We made sure they were happy and made us feel like, you know what? This is my uncle that I haven't seen in x amount of years. And then you, sir, you might not remember this, but there was one of the seminary guys that he wanted to put a little donate donation in the jar, and then he was looking for change. And he just I think he says it's just drop it in, get what you can. and then you said he goes, I trust everybody. Those are your exact words. And you know what? That right there in itself is has to have people thinking, wow. You know what? There are good people out there. There are people that are doing this for nothing other than just to help. You have no intentions, no alternative motives to open up your house. Again, I say that. That's so awesome. And you will never know the impact that you've made on people. But just know that there are hundreds of people that are that you have touched, and they're gonna tell other people and other people of your generosity. And then maybe that'll turn them around. So you know what? Maybe I should slow down and be generous to somebody else's fault too.

Bob

Mhmm Yeah. I well. We definitely trust more in the Camino than we do in the outside world, which is sad. Yeah. We trust like that in the outside world. Yeah. So that was a good lesson you taught us with that. Let me thank you.

Danny

Thank you. Okay. You got me silent now. Yeah. No. Yes. and, you know. I was thinking a lot about why it is possible here and not outside. And what I noticed that we don't judge. Mhmm. You see somebody sitting on the side and don't you don't think, like, come up. Something you further on, because that's judgment. But you could say, you go there. Can I help you? Yeah. and we need judgment. Otherwise, we cannot survive in a normal world. If you walk in the city and the traffic light is red, and you don't judge, you're dead. Then you need to stop. And that's a judgment. So without judgment, our human body cannot survive. But it is also imprisoning people. And here you meet people, and we don't talk about politics. We don't talk about what you do or what your profession is. It's that's all gone. We are meeting people without a judgment. And I read that book from, Neal Donald Walsh Conversation with God, which is a big guide for me, and I don't want to be a preacher from that. But I it, had a big impact for me. and, you know, he said that if you don't judge, that is perceived by the other person as unconditional love. Mhmm. Yeah. It's true. and I think that if you meet people on a Camino, we don't judge. And suddenly, we have a very deep connection because it feels like it is not falling in love with somebody, that's different. You know, the different law. The different love. The love you don't have so much emotion by, but it's all in your system and all over the place. And that's what I thought could be the reason why we connect so fast and deep with people we never saw in our own life. And perhaps, we would pass them in daily life, which is not normal life. And the Camino is, I think, normal life. And so and then you would perhaps have an opinion, and then you don't talk or not so much. And you miss that connection. Yeah. Okay. Before I start preaching, because I'm not a priest by the way, talking about priest, I had a interview with, a priest from America, who I met last year. So he will be on the podcast, very soon as well. Fr. Ben. And episode number four is Derek. I talk about that, what happened there with the priest. So if you want to know, then listen to that episode. okay. Before we close, I want to ask each one of you. what do you really want to say to the people who are listening to the podcast? Either.to be pilgrims, people on the Camino.or whoever. What you really want to say? What is so important that you want to say before we close this

Melissa

episode.Before I left, the priest at the school that I teach said that the Camino is so impactful that the devil will put roadblocks to the second you leave. And I think that's a really.that stuck with me because before I left, a number of things came up where I thought maybe I need to postpone, maybe I should change it. And.my family around me just kept saying go. Just go. You will never have enough time, enough money, enough this, enough that if it calls to you, just do it. And don't worry about the right gear, the right anything. You will overpack. You will make mistakes. You will throw things out. You'll buy new things, and it will all be fine. So just listen to what calls you and just do it.

Bob

Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I think the other part too is, you know, we've all talked about, like Melissa said, there's a lot of overthinking. You know? Like, what pack do I need and what shoes do I need? You don't really need No, really. you need some shoes and, you know, the shorts. Yeah. Shoe shorts. I have, you know, two socks, two shorts, two shirts, and, so you don't need a ton, although you will over research. but, also, you know, you don't have to do we're all doing the, you know, the French way, so it's five weeks. But, you know, if you have two weeks, you can do a shorter route or you can do a section. It doesn't have to be a five week thing. You could do, like Carlos and Nancy. They did a shorter section, León, into Santiago, and that hooked them, and now they're back here. So, you know, don't think it has to be this huge five week adventure that you could make it. Yeah.

Danny

Exactly. And everybody walks his own Camino. Like, I last year, I discovered, okay. I cannot walk twenty four kilometers a day anymore. I needed to go first back down to fifteen a day. Yeah. And then I noticed I needed to rest after five days for two days. But I had suddenly appointment appointments because I wanted to take over Albergue. So then the second day, I took the bus Yeah. I can tell you? do you know Lord of the Rings with Gollum? Yes. Yeah. I had a lot of Gollum moments. Yeah. Before I allowed myself to go by bus. I can tell you that there was a lot of discussion going on here Yeah. But everybody walks his own Camino and, Yeah. I think this is the best way to say it. Do it by your own way. It's all good. There's no wrong. It's all good. It's your way. Yeah. Exactly Yeah. That's fine. Anybody else want to share a last statement for the pilgrims?

Carlos

I just think two things. hopefully, your podcast, a lot of people who have never done it or heard about it, staring back and wondering if they can physically do it and all that. The answer is yes. You can. And the other answer to that, the question or answer, whatever it is what we all everybody's been saying here is, it doesn't matter how you do it. You do it your way. There's no change. There's no because you there's some people that say, well, if you don't walk it with bare feet, you're not relevant. No. That's to do how everyone do it. There's zero judgment. Nobody cares if your hair is the wrong way. just do your thing. Yeah. And then the other thing that I don't need to be careful about too is mindful is, you know, it's we're excited right now. We're gonna go back to the states or a home, and we're gonna try to help people out. But let's face it. As a week goes by, a month goes by, a year goes by, and we're so far removed from it that we just keep we forget about that. And we really need to do an effort of reminding ourselves that, no. The Camino doesn't end in Santiago, Finisterra, or Muxia, wherever it's gonna be that. It continues to your hometown every single day in the team of such people in ways that you can.

Danny

Yep. And that's my job, probably. Because Yep. Yeah. Because I move on to other things. Mhmm. Yeah. We get back to the rat race. Yeah.

Ilona

. And for us, I think also we started by our own, and now we are a family together with the five of us. it's great to do the podcast with you because we wanna share this moment with each other. And, so you see, things are happening. We didn't know that before we walking the Camino. We did it by our own and just see what's happening, and now we're sitting here together. It's so special Yeah. It's really all happy family.

Danny

Yes. Yeah. So I must say that.I find it quite exciting. I'd also mentioned it in the beginning because I do till now only the one on one talks, but this was really awesome. So, if other groups listen to this podcast, this episode, please hit the share your story button, and then we do another one with, the whole group. Yeah. And, because that's really exciting, and also listen to your stories. And, I really hope, Carlos, what you say that. that more people start doing this because.I don't know. Did anyone of you listen to the introduction episode.and you didn't listen to it because I came to an insight when I was writing the script for that one. I never write scripts, but I did for that one because I really want to make sure that what I found important came across. And when I was writing that stuff, the script, then I realized that if we listen to. pilgrims talking about the Camino, actually, what we are doing here is reflection.we look back, And actually, what Camino is all about, Self-Reflection, because you look at all the things happening to you. And the thing is that I was talking so much with people about being in the observer position, the third position, and people looked at me like, oh, yeah. I understand what you talk about, but they didn't understand. And the thing is that at the moment that you do Self-Reflection. you are aware of yourself.and you're out. You are looking at yourself. And then you that's a very unique position because then you are aware that you have an emotion, but you are not the emotion. And then you can determine what kind of action you want to do. And many times you look at the emotions you have, and then you say, hey, dude. This is quite funny you want to do now because I made a big laugh about myself, you know, one of the Gollum moments. So and then I realized that if you listen every day to Self-Reflection of a pilgrim.you are training your brain in Self-Reflection because we are copying machines. And if you start to see the why somebody is doing something.what I discovered is that the judgment for the why fades away very quickly. I can still have very strong judgments about how people do that. They're like the men.or leaders in the world. So the how you can judge, and many times you need to stop it as well. But the why is.always something they try to do something good.And if you understand the why, judgment fade aways, and then it becomes unconditional, and then you are in the space of unconditional love. And when I was writing that script, and I thought, oh, blimey. When really people are listening to the podcast every day, your brain will rewire. You cannot help it. And then another aspect is kicking in as well because your instinct is perceiving that you will change, and he doesn't like that because that's unsafe. And, so he will try, he will do the best, tool, put in the best tool that your instinct has, and it's made you forget to listen.It's the best, tool, the instinct have to put you on the same spot, make you, forget to listen. That was one of the things I got out. And when I now invite the pilgrims here in the Inner Camino House, to join the podcast, then I say also, you need to do it now. Because if you think you want to do it later, your instinct will intervene. And then six months later, you think, I wanted to do something with the podcast. What was it again? Yeah? and that's how the instinct protects itself and keeps everything the same. So, yeah, so, I really hope that people listening to the podcast are aware of that and push that button so we can, actually, yeah, make, I think we if you go back home and you do what you all talked about, people will see it and feel it. Yeah. And you make a difference.That's the goal. Escape through that.Yeah. Okay. So I want to wrap it up. Thank you very much. And, yeah. So. I hope, actually, I don't know what to say anymore. I just want to thank you guys.Thank you. Yes. Okay Thank you. too. Bye. Bye.

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