Episode 5 - Cathay Reta from Washington - How bed bugs, blisters and one sentence helped her love herself again

Danny

So hello, listeners of the Podcast, the Inner Camino Podcast, Self-Reflection Podcast for pilgrims, by pilgrims. And today, I'm very happy that Cathay is joining the Podcast. We had already a talk before, so we know each other already, and she had very interesting things she discovered. So, Cathay, welcome to the Inner Camino Podcast. And could you tell something about yourself for the Camino family?

Cathay

Sure. Hi, Danny. And I really appreciate the chance to talk with you and share a little bit about myself. I live in the United States in the state of Washington in a small town, and I moved here. Been here for a couple years, but I previously lived most of my life in Los Angeles. So it's quite a difference being in this small community now, but I'm enjoying it. And I'm enjoying it with my second husband, Ray. We've been together, like, seven years now. So it's been a good experience.

Danny

You walked the Camino. And may I ask what made you walking the Camino in the first place?

Cathay

Yes. And that takes me back to with my first husband. I've been married thirty three years, and then he passed away. And so I was a widow at sixty four years old, and I left Los Angeles and was living in a rural community with some friends. And someone had previously told me about the Camino, and I thought, well, that's interesting. I'd love to do that someday, but I'd had a pretty sedentary life. It seemed too far fetched. But it didn't leave my mind. It kept gnawing at me.

Cathay

And finally, on my sixty fourth birthday, I thought I should do something big next year. Maybe I'll walk the Camino. And it was almost a joke to me, but I said, yeah. I'll celebrate my sixty fifth year on the Camino. And from what I heard, I thought, well, it sounds perfect. You know, you don't have distractions. You get up each day, you walk, and you eat, and you visit, and that's it. Day after day. And I would use that time to plan out what to do with the next third of my life.

Cathay

Now that I was widowed and I had left my job and left where I had lived, I'm okay. What's next? So I thought it was gonna be a really great mental activity and physical. But I was surprised. That's not what it was at all.

Danny

How did it change then? What was so different?

Cathay

It turned out to be very much a spiritual and healing activity. And starting with the first night when I was in Roncesvalles in this cathedral. And sitting there, I started to tear up. And I thought that was strange. And then I heard in my heart, I heard the word absolution. I said, that's not why I'm here. I don't need absolution. I'm fine with God. And the voice came back and said, you need absolution from yourself to yourself.

Cathay

That really set the stage for it. And over the next three weeks, I cried a lot. I complained a lot. It was difficult, you know, as those who've walked it know, the physical stress is clearly there, but it just broke something open in me.

Danny

So you also said you hear that Inner voice. Did you ever have an experience like that in your life before?

Cathay

Yes. I had. So this was not something that I was frightened of. I kind of had throughout my life experience of talking with God. I refer to as God or my Lord. Some people refer to the universe, but I think we all have that God within us, and there's this knowing and a voice that will talk to us and guide us if we let it. But we're usually pretty expert at not listening and just pushing it out of the way.

Cathay

And I think that's the big thing that happened on the Camino. There aren't all those distractions, and you're left with just yourself and your Inner guidance, your Inner voice. And it's not easy just to push it out of the way when you're in that scenario.

Danny

No. Actually, in my experience, it's impossible to push it away because you're walking there on your own, and you go through that thing if you want it or not. So that was in Roncesvalles that you had that Inner voice say you need absolution?

Cathay

Mhmm. And I had no idea what it was talking about. I'm still like, I don't get it. I don't know what that, you know? So I just kept going. And I really did want to quit. And I kept thinking I should, you know, to plan out the next part of my life, I can go to a hotel and sit by a pool and do it there. But I knew I couldn't. I knew I had to be on the Camino and I didn't know why.

Cathay

And so I kept going, and I had Achilles tendonitis. I have a lot of heel pain, so I didn't walk as many miles as a lot of people do. I was doing probably six to eight, nine miles a day, a few thirteen mile days. But that kind of held me back. So I also didn't connect with people like others do in the family. I didn't have that, and I was feeling very alone.

Cathay

I will say with the exception of one young woman from South Korea. She and I started out together the first day. And then just in that perfect timing, she would show up again at some real key points on the walk, and we ended up the last day in Santiago at the same place, the same time.

Danny

Without planning.

Cathay

Without planning. Right. Well, the last one in Santiago, we knew towards the end. Okay. We're both gonna be there. Let's do that.

Danny

So you encountered or you experienced while walking synchronicity, that things are happening, because you mentioned at certain key moments she was there.

Cathay

Yeah. Like, we had gotten separated early on. And then the day before I got to the Iron Cross, I was sitting eating lunch in an Albergue, and she came in. And we just screamed and were excited and hugged. And so she was there to walk with me to the Iron Cross. And that's where I left a stone for my husband, like making a final goodbye, a very emotional time. And I thought, you know, she was there for that part. And that made it really special.

Cathay

And then later, as I kept walking, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, it did. I'm one of the few probably who got bed bugs. And that was devastating. Then I really wanted just to give up and go home. But here's another part. You know, I got in, washed my clothes, and then tried to do what I thought I was supposed to do. And I was laying on my bunk and crying or just about ready to cry.

Cathay

And another pilgrim from the UK came in, Patrick. And he asked me, how's your day going? I said, not good. I've got bed bugs, and I wanna go home. And I just began sobbing. So he sat down with me and just consoled me, and it was so helpful. I don't know what he said, but I felt better.

Cathay

We went walking around town that night. And then at one point, he stopped. He turned to me, and he said, you're on the Camino to learn to fall in love with yourself again.

Danny

Oh, I get goosebumps.

Cathay

That was it. That's when I knew, okay, it's true. And that's what this is about. It's not planning my future. I had totally lost myself, and it was time to rediscover myself and fall in love again with life and with me.

Cathay

And things got better after that, even though I found out two days later I still had bed bugs. But then my friend Amy, a South Korean friend, was stopped at a hostel just up the road, and she had emailed me, or we had connected on WhatsApp. And she told me, come here. This host is really great. He'll help you. And I did, and he was wonderful. It was El Paso in Vega de Valcarce. Just wonderful. We got rid of the bed bugs, got me settled. I just felt good again. I rested. Just something had changed. Some strain that had been on my heart just lifted. And it was better from there out.

Danny

So I get goosebumps. I want to say that. And I also, I'm not a soft pussy in that way, but I teared up just now. It really touched me what you say. So it's difficult. I had a question in my mind, but it's gone. So you say it is about finding yourself and something changed. What changed then? Do you know what changed?

Cathay

You know, I ask myself that a lot, and I think there's several things to it. I don't know. Part of it was being cared for at El Paso, at that Albergue. Just being seen and acknowledged, and so I wasn't alone anymore. And there's something about that.

Cathay

And that's part of, you know, someone I know had talked with me about my story. She said, okay, I understand you found yourself, but how did you lose yourself? That's what I wanna know. And so reflecting back, and actually I'm writing about that now, and you learn something as you're writing, it had been not being true to myself. Not listening to that Inner voice that would nudge me here or there, but instead go on with what other people thought was the thing to do, or the majority. You know, who am I to do anything different? And just really giving up on myself and getting to where I was pretty much numbed in my life and didn't stand in my own voice. And so I think that started to change.

Danny

What you're just talking about, I look at that a little bit differently. Because if we talk about that in that way, actually, we blame ourselves that we went that way. Because we are losing ourselves, and we did the things other people expected. And there's a kind of you did it wrong in us when we say something like that.

Danny

So the way how I look at it is that actually your instinct is taking care of you, because when you do the things that other people expect, you get appraisal. And when you get appraisal, you belong to the tribe. And when you belong to the tribe, your instinct will say, you're safe now. So actually, your instinct is protecting you.

Danny

But at the end, if you are not aware and conscious enough, which I was the same, you do a lot of stuff, and then later on, you think, what the heck did I do, and where was me? But that's actually only the instinct taking care of you, and that's why you lose yourself. So I don't see it as a kind of thing I did wrong. That's how I perceive it.

Cathay

I can appreciate that. We do what we need to as we go through life. But then I can go back and look at too why the word absolution, why I needed to forgive myself. Because then I did hate myself and see that I had done all this wrong. But I uncovered that. I actually found just to love myself again. And I don't resent it. I don't regret what I had done up to that life. Like you say, it brought me to where I was. Then it was time to move on and to a new time of life for me.

Danny

What also strikes me in what you just said now is that you see yourself again. I have a stamp for the Inner Camino House and below, there's written, I see me. And I got the inspiration from the movie Avatar, the movie with the blue people where they say, I see you, and not like hello, but I really see you. And when I was designing the stamp, I got a hunch that I thought the Camino is all about seeing me. So I put it on the stamp, and you also refer to that.

Cathay

Yeah. That's powerful. I remember that phrase from Avatar, and that's been on my mind how powerful it is. And I think, essentially, all of us just want to be seen. We want someone to know us. And I've been learning too about grief, because that's part of my experience, grieving my husband. I had not grieved because I thought I was strong, and I don't need that. But you have to.

Cathay

And from what I understand, you need a witness to it. Something you're going through. And I think the people on the Camino provide that if they see you. Maybe that's why often people connect so quickly, because we're taking time to really see one another and not just the casual, hi, how are you, blah blah blah.

Danny

And what I experienced with the pilgrims is there's none or hardly any judgment towards each other. And then you can open your soul, your heart, because there is no thing you need to protect yourself for. And what I noticed myself is that when judgment is not there, then you connect very quickly on a very deep level. You met the lady in Roncesvalles only one time, but there's most likely a very, very deep connection.

Danny

And what I experienced myself also, then you start walking and you lose your new Camino family, and it hurts intensively. As if you lose really a family member and you only know the person for an hour or a day. It's unbelievable. And I was thinking a lot about that while walking my Caminos.

Danny

Somewhere, I got the revelation, the conclusion, whatever you call it. It is like, because we are in a state of nonjudgment towards each other, there is nothing to protect for, and you connect really fast because of that. And when you meet somebody who's judging, even if it is a little bit, it is felt much more extreme and intense than in daily life. Because then you are always protecting yourself for judgment. But now walking the Camino, that's not there. And then you really can connect so deeply. Does that resonate to you what I'm just blabbing now? Sorry about that.

Cathay

Yeah. I think it does because we're not on the defensive. And so we're open to just be direct and truthful and not judgmental. Or if there's some of it there, it's easier to see because it sticks out more. In our day to day life, I'm afraid it's so common. And even within myself, it's hard not to do that and have to pull back. But I actually will say I'm better at that. I've come to, like, everyone's living their own life, and it's not me to say what you should do or what's right for you, and you make your decision, and you'll find your way. I just believe people will find their way.

Danny

I also noticed about judging, for me, the exam of moving towards the non judging is at the moment that you don't judge yourself, that you are judging.

Cathay

Oh, yeah.

Danny

Because without judging, we cannot survive. If the traffic light is red, we need to judge. Otherwise, we keep walking. We're dead. So without judging, we can't survive. But for me, the difference became, I started to live step by step slowly, that I don't judge that I'm judging. The only thing I don't do anymore is acting out of the judgment. So I don't say anything. I don't act on it. In me, there is a judgment going on, and I'm looking at it, and I see, okay, Danny. I see that you are judging, and I understand why. And don't do it. Don't do anything. Don't say anything, and then the judgment will fade away.

Cathay

Okay. Yeah. And that's, I guess, there's so many lessons that people bring home from the Camino. And I think that's one of them about not judging. You don't know another person's, you know, you don't know what they've been on.

Danny

But also, you can't help it to judge, because it is there before you blink your eye. The judgment is living in you. And then, yeah, it is always about values and norms, things you should do and not do, and all that kind of stuff. And that's why we judge, because then we can adjust and we get appraisal and we feel safe. So it is a very human thing to do. You only don't always need to act on it. That's my conclusion out of walking the Caminos and contemplating on the lessons I learned later on, afterwards.

Danny

So how long did you walk?

Cathay

I walked thirty five days. And in that, I walked two hundred fifty one miles. So I did have to bus over parts of it to get to Santiago in time to catch my flight home.

Danny

And how long is it ago that you walked?

Cathay

Oh, in twenty nineteen.

Danny

Okay. Can you say, are there any effects on your life? Because the revelations and the things happened on the Camino.

Cathay

Yeah. There is. There is a lot. When I finished, and let me back up here. So when I got into Santiago, I expected what I'd read about with other people, you're all excited and crying, and I didn't have any of that. I felt numb. It's like, okay, I did it now. And just kind of wondering now what was that about? Because I didn't understand it till much later.

Cathay

And so I went on home. But one thing had happened. Like I said, I went wanting to figure out what to do with the rest of my life. And I have always, since I was a child, wanted to be a writer, to be an author, but never had the courage to it. But after I got home from the Camino, then I wrote my first book, Keep Walking. And so I came home with the courage.

Danny

But that's the book behind you?

Cathay

Yes. Uh-huh. It's Keep Walking. Your Heart Will Catch Up. And that's a phrase I heard while I was walking. And one of those times I wanted to just quit.

Cathay

So when I was done, I wasn't really sure what it was, but I know that had changed. And then I started to notice I was lighter. One day, I was looking through my pictures that I'd taken with my iPhone, and there is one where my head was thrown back in laughter. And I remember doing a double take like, who is that woman? And I don't think I had ever seen myself like that. And I realized that was an effect of the Camino.

Cathay

Later, I listened to a Podcast where Brene Brown had talked about emotions. We can't pick and choose which emotions we suppress. If we suppress one, like the grief, it all gets suppressed. And in looking at those pictures, and I found a few more like that, I saw myself that something had opened up and some joy had returned, which I hadn't felt for a long time.

Cathay

I had just been numb even before my husband passed away. I had already become quite practiced at not feeling my emotions. And so through that process and grieving him and just all that happened on the Camino, I released those emotions, and I'm able to feel more joy and even laugh out loud sometimes. That doesn't come easy for me. People do the big belly laughs. That doesn't come out easy, but I've caught myself doing that a time or two. And I know that's a fruit of what opened in me on the Camino.

Danny

And how is your surrounding reacting on you because you are changed now? Family, friends, people you know.

Cathay

You know what's interesting? I'm in a whole new place, because after I got back, by the time I finished the Camino, I decided I didn't wanna be alone. First I thought, yeah, I'm not gonna remarry. And by the time I got home, I thought, no. I want someone to share my life with. So I got home, it was July, and in December I met Ray, who I'm married to now. So just months later. And then I moved to where he was, at that time Spokane Valley in Washington state. So it's a whole new area. It's new people.

Cathay

But here's another thing I can tell you. There is a young woman I had known since when I was in my early twenties. I lived in Guadalajara, Mexico. While I was there, I met this family. We became friends. I was teaching guitar to their eight year old daughter. And so we had that relationship. Then later, she moved to the United States and where I lived. So I knew her as a young woman, and then I was there when she got married and then when she had her children. So through all these phases.

Cathay

So after I wrote my book, I was doing a little book tour, and I went and was making a talk about it. And somehow it had changed me, and she shared with the group. She said, I knew Cathay when I was eight years old, and when I was a single woman. And I always kept thinking there's something missing. There's something off, something wrong. And now I see you, and you're all there. It's complete. That means a lot to me, that observation from her. That was the difference it made.

Danny

That's also interesting what you're referring now to, because when I was walking last year for the first time from Saint Jean Pierre de Port to Santiago, because I did three times the last hundred sixty kilometers, and in twenty fourteen I married on the Camino. My wife and me, we walked the Honeymoon Camino. So I've been there a couple of times, but the whole thing from Saint Jean, when I arrived last year in Santiago, my wife drove all the way from Sweden for three days to meet me at the square at the moment I would arrive there, because we had business meetings to take over an Albergue, which didn't happen.

Danny

Anyway, I arrived at the square. I had the whole eight hundred kilometers behind me, and especially the Meseta had a big, big impact on me and a positive impact. But I arrived there, and she gave me space to be with me in my emotions, ending the Camino, and all that what is rushing to you at the moment you're there. And then we walk to get a Compostela, and we get out. And then she said to me, you know what? You changed.

Danny

I said, how? What? She said, I have no idea, but there is something different. And I thought, I don't know. Because for me, myself, I wasn't aware. She was aware, like that lady. And later on, months later, I could put it in words. I never found better words than what I am going to say now. But for me, it was that finally I arrived in myself.

Danny

And there's so much centered being myself, not needing anything from other people, sharing with other people. If they don't like it, that's okay. When they like it, it's okay. It is so quiet now and it never left me. It is still in me.

Danny

I talk about it many times, and also William in Podcast number three, I asked him the question, how did it change? He said, I cannot stop talking about the Camino when somebody asks about it. I keep on rambling. But he also mentioned that his kids and grandchildren say I'm more lenient, more nonjudgmental, not wanting from other people. But he also mentioned that it is for him the normal state of being. So you don't know it yourself.

Cathay

That's right. The reflection from the outside is important to discover your own change. Because we're not seeing it from the inside. It's wonderful when we get that feedback from someone else. It's like you said, the sign you have at the Albergue, I see me.

Danny

And also, you just mentioned about seeing. I don't know if you know, but I made a song, the Inner Camino House Song.

Cathay

It's beautiful.

Danny

It is beautiful. And then you have that part from laughter in three languages, all meaning the same. I see you. I'm with you. You can rest your name. And it is so about the Camino because this is about seeing you, and because you can see yourself, you can also start seeing others.

Cathay

That's true. You're not, you can see others more easily because you're not worried about protecting yourself or what they're gonna think of you. So that's taken care of. You're fine. See them. I get it.

Danny

Many people here in Inner Camino House, when they come in and they say, oh, there is a song. Can I hear it? And I always warn them. I will play it, but don't tell me I didn't warn you. So I put on the song, and many people are starting eyeballing. Because it is really touching to be seen, where you also talk about in your whole journey that you start to recover yourself and see yourself. It's really, really great.

Cathay

Yeah. And, you know, it's not often that we get to where we can feel, I don't know, express what we're feeling or where it comes out. It makes me think, if I may, of one passage I wrote in the book, which I wrote when I was sitting one morning in Belorado.

Danny

Oh, that's, you know, Belorado, seven and a half kilometers from here. Between Santo Domingo and Belorado. Can you see again synchronicity?

Cathay

Yes. Yes. This is synchronicity. And I totally know where you are, because that day when I was walking, I was there in July, and it was hot. I probably was starting too late. And I just really was hot and wanting to quit, and I stopped in, I believe, the town where you are. I was thinking, okay, I'm done. I'm gonna just stay here. And then someone told me, go on to Belorado. There's more services there. There's more for you.

Cathay

And I looked and I thought, no. But then I saw a billboard, a big sign for a taxi. I thought, oh, maybe I'll call a taxi to get there. And I didn't wanna do that. And about then, someone drove by in a truck, a gentleman and his teenage daughter, and they handed me a bottle of water. I drank that, and I felt better, and I just was encouraged. And I went on to Belorado. And then I took an extra day there because I really needed to rest. But I was still trying to think, what is this going on? And so I sat on the patio, and I wrote this, if I may.

Cathay

This Camino brings forth a physical struggle to match the Inner breaking of the heart and of the soul. I think it gives depth and tangibility to what's felt inside. The physical challenge is drawing emotional pain to my conscious mind so I may become aware of it, see it and name it, and absolve it. And there it is, absolution.

Cathay

Too often, we try to just handle everything in the mind detached, untouched, uninvolved. But the power of transformation comes when the flow of life and pain seep through the cracks, when the physical touches the soul. Those emotions express in the physical and present themselves to the mind. The mind is the observer taking it all in, and we begin to understand. Ah, I think, that's the Camino. It's the beginning of understanding. It's letting go and accepting. It's an unfolding of healing, of truth.

Danny

I'm speechless.

Cathay

Yeah. For me, that's the Camino. That's the secret, what it is. And so I think some of these experiences are getting broke open like that. I don't know if I could have gotten it any other way.

Danny

I really am sitting here with goosebumps from the toe to the crown of my head. Because what you say, at the moment that you start to see it, you can let it go. And actually, this is when I had the idea for this Podcast, the idea was only sharing the Inner Camino stories with each other so you can take the Camino home and take that vibe in your daily life.

Danny

When I was writing the introduction script, I never write scripts for Podcast. But because I wanted to make sure that the intention of the Podcast came across, I started writing for the first time in my life the script. And when I was writing, I thought, oh, this is so interesting, because at the moment that you do Self-Reflection, which is happening a lot when you're walking, at the moment that you do self reflect, you start to understand. You understand the why. And at the moment that you understand the why, automatically the judgment about the why starts to fade away.

Danny

You can still have judgment how somebody tries to do it, but the judgment on the why starts to fade away. And the next step is that you move towards non judgment. It is the experience we have when we meet somebody who has no judgments towards us, because we are totally free, and we experience that as unconditional love.

Danny

So at the moment that you start doing Self-Reflection, the whole thing I just mentioned behind is an automatic process. You cannot avoid it. And you go to understanding. When you understand, judgment falls away. You move to nonjudgment, and the other person feels seen and moved by unconditional love. And that is also what you described, how I interpreted the piece you just wrote in the book.

Cathay

Yeah. And I would put that in the title of my book too, Keep Walking. Your Heart Will Catch Up. So it's the process. Just keep going, keep moving through it, and your heart will catch up, and eventually you'll come to understand and appreciate it.

Danny

Oh, wow. I find this really too profound, and also the synchronicities happening during this talk. I mean, you sitting, writing in Belorado. Now I'm sitting in that small town where you wanted to give up, where Inner Camino House is, and where people start eyeballing. My wife calls me the master of disaster because I make everybody cry.

Cathay

Now you're right where I needed some place to go sit and cry.

Danny

Exactly. So it is unbelievable how the Camino, it doesn't continue. The whole life is already there, but we become aware because there is a Camino we're walking. And while we're walking the real Camino here in Northern Spain, then we become aware that there is something like that, and something is taking care of us, and that we can live from a space of nonjudgment.

Cathay

Yeah. And the Camino helps us get to that. I think one of the concerns I have is people who don't have the time or the ability to go and walk the Camino. And I'm like, okay, there has to be some way that they can still come into the same breakthrough and find themselves, see themselves in nonjudgment.

Cathay

So I think that's one thing I like to talk to people about, is listen to that Inner voice that you have. Don't ignore it and don't shoo it away. You've got it. And then I believe if someone starts in doing that, then the universal bring, or whatever, they need to put them in the position to break that crack and to open through.

Danny

I'm a strong believer in that we spread that out, because the human being is a copying machine. You talking English and behaving in a certain way, you didn't go to school to learn English. You copied it from your parents and your environment. So at the moment you, in your place, in your environment, start living from a place of nonjudgment, that's the light behind the door in a dark room. And the candlelight behind the door will shine under the door, and you see it. So the other person in a dark room is drawn to the light and wants to open and listen to it, and they will start copying that behavior without knowing that they do it.

Cathay

That's a beautiful description. That's a lot to take in.

Danny

So we are copying machines. And when I was writing the script for the introduction Podcast, I realized what started as just an idea to share could be a means and a way where we spread non judgement through the world. Because at the moment that I don't judge the other person, I have still contact with them. And then I can ask him, I understand what you do. But can you see the unwanted side effects of how you do it?

Danny

But if you say, you're stupid what you do, the connection is gone, and you cannot do anything anymore. Only with force, law force, brutal force, shutting them out of the society, all kind of forceful things. But at the moment that you say, oh yeah, I really understand why you do this. But can you look at the unwanted side effects? And no person in the world I know is in its core bad. They want to do good. Only the way how they do it has a lot of collateral damage.

Danny

So at the moment that we do this in the Podcast, we are training our brain in Self-Reflection. That's what the Podcast is doing also by listening to your story. And then you train your brain. If you listen every day to a Podcast, you will train your brain in Self-Reflection because it is a skill, not a talent. You can learn it. And the moment that you can do that, you will understand and you will move to non judgment and it will be in connection. The domino stones after that, you can't stop it. It will flip and it will go that direction. So you really are the light behind the door in your environment.

Cathay

I love it. That's beautiful. And then we begin to have understanding leading to nonjudgment. It's reminding me of some work I used to do, facilitating national issues forums. We would gather people in a community and take some topic of concern to them. And the goal of us facilitators is that everyone in there, we want to make sure different viewpoints are represented, and it's not to debate, not to convince each other. But by the time we leave, we hope everyone can at least understand why that person believes it differently. What are their values? What brought them to that? And you don't have to agree with them, but can you hear it and understand why someone would think that? It's one of the most powerful things I was ever involved in.

Danny

Exactly. I learned this from the book The Conversation with God, from Neale Donald Walsch. It was all about me and judgment. And it was mind boggling for me and really difficult because your human system, I would call it my human Danny, needs judgment like we talked before. Otherwise, I cannot survive. So it is ingrained in our DNA to judge. But it goes astray at the moment that we do the actions with a lot of collateral damage.

Danny

But for the instinct, it doesn't matter at all. The collateral damage, the main thing is you need to be safe. So at the moment that you start to understand, you have the connection, you really can intervene. And I say at the moment that you understand why you do what you do, and you feel the action you want to do, but you understand it, then you are the observer of yourself.

Danny

That is the first step in a conscious decision if you want to do this or not do it. Otherwise, you would do it because then you are the emotion, but now you are aware of the emotion. And then for the first time in your life, you have a really special opportunity to make a very conscious decision and look through the unwanted side effects of the action you want to do, and you can do something else.

Danny

And that is what I've learned, and I live that way. And what you say also, you have been there. You wrote your book. So people who are reading your book, you will help them to go to that place of nonjudgment because you're talking about Self-Reflection. I don't know if that resonates with you, what I say now, but I think your book is most likely one big Self-Reflection from page one till the end.

Cathay

It is. Most of my writing, I've written four books now. Actually, the last one I wrote was I worked in adult literacy in that field for forty years. I wrote reflections on adult literacy, but it's the stories, the experiences that I learned and what formed my thinking and how I approach things.

Cathay

What I like about the way I write, it is just sharing my story, my reflections. And I think it's exactly as you describe. Other people can see the light from there and take from it what they will, if that resonates, if they wanna do it. And for me, that's much more powerful than writing a book and saying you should do this. You do step one, step two, step three. No. I just lay it out there, and I know your soul will pick up on it what you need. That's my hope.

Cathay

And I have heard from some people, especially some older women, that said, oh, after I read your book, I decided I'm gonna do what I want and stop trying to please everybody else. But I didn't tell them that's what you need to do. They just got that and took it in as the message while they were reading.

Danny

And they start seeing themselves. So I find this very touching because I had goosebumps a couple of times. Thank you very much. Before we close this episode, is there something which you really want to say to your Camino family, friends, people who are thinking about walking the Camino, or already walked it, or walking it at this moment? Is there something you really say, I need to share that?

Cathay

Yeah. I think, one, if you haven't walked it, but you have that impulse, well, then you must. It's calling you. There's a reason for it, and you don't know why. And I can't tell you why. And even for those that are on it, or maybe already did walk it and are like, I was thinking, what was that about? Why did I do that? The key is to be open.

Cathay

If you go in with the mindset it has to be a certain way, you might well get disappointed or have to get beaten down like I did with bed bugs and blisters and all the difficulty till I could open up and hear it. I just wanted to mention that if you're not open, the Camino will open you.

Cathay

So much more to go and be open and just enjoy what comes out of it. And that's probably just a good lesson for life. Life in general, just be open and follow those impulses you have in your heart to do this or to do that and see where it takes you. But it was a wonderful, life changing experience. Totally life changing.

Danny

Oh, I agree with that. Because the first time I walked in twenty thirteen, and now in twenty twenty six, I'm sitting here in Viloria de Rioja, doing the Inner Camino House, offering the pilgrims a home for a moment. And if anybody would have said that in twenty ten to me, then I would say you're totally nuts.

Danny

And actually, at that time in two thousand nine, there was a Spanish friend living in Germany where I was living at that time. He was married with a German woman. And he said, yeah, I want to do the Jacob's Weg, how it is called in Germany. And I said, oh, what's that? He said, yeah, that's a pilgrimage all the way to Santiago. I never heard about it. And I thought, what's that? And I said, where do you start? He said, here at home. I said, two and a half thousand kilometers. I thought, you're really out of your mind. And I remember driving back in the car with my German ex wife now, and I said to her, he lost his marbles.

Cathay

Little did you know.

Danny

Yeah. And then in twenty eleven or something, I saw the movie The Way, or twenty twelve, and I was stung like by a wasp, and I only needed to do one thing, walk the Camino. And now I'm sitting here. So it is for many people, I hear that, life changing.

Cathay

Yes. Yes. That's wonderful you're there and able to encourage them and be a part of that walk as they're passing through your town.

Danny

Okay, Cathay. I really appreciate this talk. And for the audience, we nearly missed this recording because there was a lot of things going on here today. So I'm very pleased that we were able to do this today anyway. I will in the show notes put the link to the book. And I also will put the link into the song because a lot of people also like to hear that one. So please send me the link afterwards so I can put it in the show notes. And I really, really want to thank you.

Cathay

I will do that. Thank you for having me on.

Danny

Thank you. Thank you.

Whether you are walking the Camino right now, or preparing for it, or perhaps you are back home, and maybe even suffering from PCS, the Post Camino Syndrome.

I hope that this podcast inspires you. And if so, do NOT keep it to yourself.

SHARE IT!

When you share this podcast, you ACTIVELY help spread the skill of Self-Reflection.

Every person who learns the skill of Self-Reflection begins to see people differently.

You may still question WHAT someone DOES.

But the judgment about their INTENTION starts to disappear. And you enter the realm of non-judgement.

And non-judgment is experienced as unconditional love.

That is how REAL change begins.

With you.
Then the people around you.
Your city.
Your province.
Your country.
Your continent.
And eventually,
the world.

That is why ACTIVELY spreading the skill of Self-Reflection, like an unstoppable virus, is SO important.

So please, do NOT just listen, but ACT on this call, and share it with as MANY people and on as MANY platforms as you can, TODAY.

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You will ALSO find the link in the show notes.

Thank you for listening, and Buen Camino.